Rooikat: Engine

[zs6hdv]

Slightly off topic: The G6 self-propelled gun/howitzer had a liquid cooled Magirus Deutz V10, 20 liter engine, which was twin turbo charged.

For 386 kW.

[oafpatroll]

Slightly off topic: The G6 self-propelled gun/howitzer had a liquid cooled Magirus Deutz V10, 20 liter engine, which was twin turbo charged.

For 386 kW.

Had no idea Deutz came in watercooled. That thing must have had a bucket load of torque to go with its 386KW.

[gary-t]

Whilst I understand ADE build (built?) engines, my understanding is that they produced copies of established platforms, they didn't design them?

They built mercedes engines for SA military from 1979 - 1994.
https://ade-engines.co.za/about/

[A-R]

Yes, the ADE engines are/were copies of Mercedes Benz engines. MB had V- configurations up to V12.

https://mymotorlist.com/engines/mercedes/om443/

ADE (Atlantis Diesel Engines) where copies of the Perkins line of engines. ADE is not existing post 1994 anymore.

Most parts between Perkins and ADE are interchangeable. We still have a lot of old model Agricultural Tractors (Ford, Mazzey Ferguson, John Deere) that have ADE engines in them. A lot of old Mercedes Benz trucks also had ADE engines. The drivetrains where designed around the Perkins Engines. During sanctions certain engines were not allowed into RSA, so the Perkins engines where copied and then just replaced the Perkins engines in said vehicles.

ADE built licensed copies of both MB and Perkins engines. The MB-copy engines, both OM 300- and OM 400-series were used in all trucks and the Perkins engines were mostly used in tractors. There were a few exceptions, like the ADE 236 (Perkins) used in the Toyota Landcruiser and possibly some Landrovers.

I suspect the more popular engines were assembled locally, from parts sourced from various sources, including MB in Germany. The slower-moving models were fully imported and rebadged.

I think it was already developed as a power pack for the Olifant tank but I could be wrong. The largest of the ADE engines was a V12 and was used in the tank transporters as far as I know.

AFAIK the Olifant used a Continental air-cooled V12 engine. Can anyone confirm?

Had no idea Deutz came in watercooled. That thing must have had a bucket load of torque to go with its 386KW.

With Deutz, LIQUID cooled does not necessarily mean WATER cooled. Their current mainstay is a range of oil-cooled diesel engines. The air-cooled engines were running foul of tightening pollution and noise regulations, so they had to develop replacement with the same efficiency advantages as the old air-cooled Diesels. One of their ways to get better fuel efficiency on a Diesel is to run the combustion chambers (hence cylinder heads) at a higher temperature than what is possible with a water-cooled system. With air-cooling this was simple, but those engines were smokey and noisy. The liquid jacket around the combustion chambers helped to keep the noises in, so they could meet modern standards. The older air-cooled engines are still being manufactured by Kilosklar in India and possibly others.

The Samil 20 mk1 used a Deutz F6L913 (straight-6) engine. Mk 2 was changed to ADE 352 (MB derived).
The Samil 50 mk1 used a Deutz F6L413 (V-6) engine. Mk3 used an ADE 409 (straight-5) engine. ADE 409 was upgraded to 429, then 449.
The Samil 100 used a Deutz F8L413 (V-8) engine. I never saw one with an ADE engine, but that's not impossible.

Deutz air-cooled engines have a simple system in the nomenclature.
F6L913 is a 6-cylinder version of the 913 series (about 1 liter per cylinder).
The 413 series displaces about 1.5 liter per cylinder. A "B" prefix would denote "turbo charged.

ADE/MB numbers are different. In the 400-series,
401 was a V6. (Discontinued early due to mechanical issues.)
402; 422; 442 was a V8. The 442TI (Turbo charged, Intercooled developed 380 HP.)
403; 423; 443 was a V10.
404, 424, 444 was a V12.
Never seen a 405 or 406, but they must have been V16 and V20, possibly intended for industrial and marine applications.
407; 447 was a straight-6 engine. (The 447T developed 280 HP.)
409; 449 was a straight-5 engine and replaced the 401. It produced the same power with less fuel.

The ADE617 was also used in small trucks. This was the OM617 5-cylinder engine from the Merc 300D car.

The 300-series was used in medium trucks.
ADE314; 364 was a 4-cylinder with about 3.8 liter displacement. (3 and 4T trucks.)
ADE352; 366 was a 6-cylinder with about 5.8 liter displacement. T and TI versions were made. (5-8T trucks.)

I am not very familiar with the Perkins-derived ADE engines, but generally they just used the original Perkins numbers with an ADE prefix. Mostly, the number denoted the displacement in cubic inches. So an ADE236 would be a 236 cubic inch 4-cylinder. ADE354 was a 6-cylinder, etc.

For some years, all (civilian) trucks and tractors were required by law to be fitted with ADE engines. In some cases, the vehicles were imported, stripped and converted, then the original engines were exported again. (Or were they dumped in the sea?)

Hope this is not too confusing?

[Tango Sierra]

Very interesting all round.

The Olifant engine is an upgraded 29L Teledyne / Continental from what I've read. I'm assuming that Rooikat and G6 have the same engine?

[A-R]

Very interesting all round.

The Olifant engine is an upgraded 29L Teledyne / Continental from what I've read. I'm assuming that Rooikat and G6 have the same engine?

Definitely not.

A tank has special requirements, needing a very compact but powerful engine, so they are pretty much specialized. Since the Olifant is an upgraded Centurion, the size of the engine compartment is pretty much fixed and that dictates what can be fitted in there. That makes them expensive too. Remember that the Olifant was developed alongside the Israeli Ben Gurion, so most upgrade components would be the same or similar. No need to re-invent the wheel.

The G6 has lots of space, so no need for a compact engine. It used a 525HP Deutz 413-series air-cooled engine to move it's 45 tonnes. Not sure how many cylinders, probably a V12. (It also had a small secondary engine to power the turret.) Remember that Deutz engines were built in Pietermaritzburg for many years. That is why we used Samil (Locally assembled Magirus Deutz) trucks. When the gubbermunt created ADE that loyalty shifted. The mk3 Samil, using ADE engines, was built at Truckmakers in Rosslyn, which also built Nissan trucks.

Both the G6 and Rooikat would have been designed around a locally available engine. Lessons learned from the Ratel, that uses a fully imported Bussing engine. Nothing wrong with it, but that was what could be had at the time, which was before ADE became available. 10 years later, an ADE407T or TI would have been a viable option there. The possibility to convert to ADE was investigated.

A friend who has Rooikat experience says it was an V8 with about 465 HP. My guess is ADE442TI.

The Olifant would have needed about 800HP to move those 60 tonnes.

Some music for those with heavy metal taste:

[zs6hdv]

I mentioned earlier the G6 engine was a V10. That is incorrect, it was a V12. The rest was correct, at least for the Pre-Production Models (of which one was mine)

[curious george]

I mentioned earlier the G6 engine was a V10. That is incorrect, it was a V12. The rest was correct, at least for the Pre-Production Models (of which one was mine)

Did you do Modular? Would be very interesting to hear about those experiences. Took a few pics of them at the "deurgangs kamp" on the Angolan side of the Kavango as the intake was about to be rotated out to klaar out. Unfortunately I got separated from my camera soon after an accident on the Grootfontein - Rundu road late one night and I ended up getting hospitalised and shipped off to 1 Mil.

[A-R]

Just for interest's sake, the Leopard 2 tank engine is of similar size (27 litre), also a V12, although liquid cooled, and it produces around 1500 HP or 1.1MW at the flywheel. The Leopard 2 weighs about the same as the Olifant, but power is about twice as much. It is probably the fastest tank around, with a top speed of 68km/h and full main gun accuracy available at that speed.

[zs6hdv]

Did you do Modular? Would be very interesting to hear about those experiences. Took a few pics of them at the "deurgangs kamp" on the Angolan side of the Kavango as the intake was about to be rotated out to klaar out. Unfortunately I got separated from my camera soon after an accident on the Grootfontein - Rundu road late one night and I ended up getting hospitalised and shipped off to 1 Mil.

I was - but not in a G6. In September of 1987, one of the 61 Mech G5 crews had an accident (barrel detonation, "loop vroeebars") and I took one of the 14 Field G6 crews to replace the guys that got hurt. So I was in Modular commanding a G5 crew (a platform I had no training on - luckily the gun part is very similar to the G6, and the rest my crew knew well). At that stage the G6 was not going to join the war.

A few weeks later they brought the other three G6s for a spin in Angola - the opportunity to test under operational conditions was too good to pass up. "My" G6 came as spares - diffs, hubs, engine and gearbox.

The next year, the Army signed the contract to purchase 72 G6s, only 66 of which were actually delivered under a later modified contract.