.303's cycling rate.

[Ds J]

I did a test:

A 1917 SMLE vs BRNO ZKK601 (copy of the Mauser action).

The 303 bolt has a guide which keeps the bolt tight within the action. It does not wiggle and therefore it cycles smooth with every shot.

The BRNO has a loose bolt, which needs a little more precision when loading. When one forces it, it can get jammed slightly, and needs to be realigned to feed a cartridge.

This, together with the 60° throw makes the LE action slightly faster.

[AK-Gunner]

"British troops were clearing houses thus demoralising the enemy with their high rate of fire, often making the enemy rather surrender than 'being shot o pieces by the Brits with their machine guns'"


Where did this happen AKG? (Certainly not at Dunkirk.)

No, the Brits were retreating, no interest to clear houses I suppose. I've found references of this kind of situations in north African and Mediterranean theatre, alas the names of the source books escape from my memory.

Theoretical rate of fire is just one factor on a military rifle, among bolt actions this detail is more a fun fact than a decisive feature and personally I'd choose a Kar 98k Mauser over an SMLE without any hesitation. Rifles don't win wars, strategies do.

[FNBROWNING]

I did a test:

A 1917 SMLE vs BRNO ZKK601 (copy of the Mauser action).

The 303 bolt has a guide which keeps the bolt tight within the action. It does not wiggle and therefore it cycles smooth with every shot.

The BRNO has a loose bolt, which needs a little more precision when loading. When one forces it, it can get jammed slightly, and needs to be realigned to feed a cartridge.

This, together with the 60° throw makes the LE action slightly faster.

You need to compare apples with apples. The actual Mauser has a bolt guide which prevents binding. You raise an issue about the BRNO that few are alert to. Most Mauser bolt handles have long since been bent or mismatched to the receiver which may or may not be a factor. The Mauser is incredibly slick in commercial versions or especially the FN Mauser with the lovely shaped and extended bolt handle.

[Samizat45]

It seem the british lost at both Mons and Le Cateau? It seems difficult to see how the fast cycling Lee Enield was a of real benefit , even in ww1?

They were outnumbered 3-1 in both actual numbers and artillery pieces according to General Alexander Von Kluck and were fighting delaying actions which are never easy. He himself made repeated references to the quality of the British opposition. (March On Paris And The Battle Of The Marne 1914 - available on Amazon )

[driepootx]

Mauser

Stripper clips holding five rounds. Opening the bolt takes more strength than with Lee.

Lee

Removable magazine holding 10 rounds - extra magazine will speed up reloading. The cock on closing is easier as momentum assists with the closing action.

[Pirate]

Mauser

Stripper clips holding five rounds. Opening the bolt takes more strength than with Lee.

Lee

Removable magazine holding 10 rounds - extra magazine will speed up reloading. The cock on closing is easier as momentum assists with the closing action.

To be fair, the L-E was not really meant to be reloaded with mag changes, (I saw somewhere initially the idea was to chain the mag to the rifle even) but also with (10rd) stripper clips. still faster than 5rd clips, and I fulle agree with everything else.

[CorditeCrazy]

The Lee was never designed to me reloaded with spare magazines though. The magazine won’t retain rounds when not in the rifles

[FNBROWNING]

10 round mag is an initial advantage but rimmed cartridge often hangs a bit whilst stripper clip loading (seen it often) . The Mauser is smooth as butter. The cock on opening vs closing debate is purely theoretical or at most, applicable to old arthritic individuals.

[janfred]

Yes, German engineering is smooth as butter when well maintained and cleaned regularly. The close tolerances (for a battle rifle) made it a very accurate rifle. Introduce mud from the trenches or dust from the desert and the LE will keep on operating. Not so much the Mauser.

The SMLE (No 1 Mk III) has a sloppy bolt and generous chamber. Not great for reloading, but helps a lot when using ammo contaminated with mud or when the rifle is dirty.

The SMLE bayonet is attached to the wooden stock, not the barrel. Hence there isn't much of a POI change when attaching the bayonet. Unlike any other battle rifle of the time.

The rear locking lugs are easy to keep clear. Compare that to front locking lugs where the lug recess is hidden. You need special tools to clear that out.

I have never seen a 10round stripper clip; never even heard of one. Two 5round clips works fast enough during the "mad minute".

Accuracy wise, during the Anglo Boer War the rifle's front sight was not correct and marksmanship of the average soldier was lacking. During that time the Brits relied more on massed fire than individual marksmanship. The boere taught them quite a bit... Since then they made sure to teach and practice marksmanship. The rifles were then also tested for accuracy before issue. The result is that the LE might not be the most accurate rifle, but is good enough for practical purposes.

All this made the SMLE a very reliable tool that could operate in bad conditions with minimal maintenance. A good battle rifle for the muddy conflicts in Europe and the sandy battlefield in North Africa. Also, when WW1 hit, the average soldier was also better trained in the use of the rifle.

[oafpatroll]

Some interesting stuff on the subject in here by someone who appears to have some real practical experience.