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  1. #51

    Default Re: .303's cycling rate.

    Another couple of points I haven't seen mentioned:

    At the time of the Boereoorlog, the Lee's didn't yet have stripper clip guides and the ammo came in boxes, not stripper clips. But the major issues with accuracy and training probably had as much to do with the drubbing as the speed of firing.

    Second, the primary reason for the P14 was that they wanted to change the caliber to a much higher pressure (and all around more modern) cartridge for which the Lee action was not well suited, but the war caught them out and the P14 was a stopgap using the new rifle with the old cartridge.

    Third, while commercial Mausers are indeed very slick, the wartime examples I have handled were as rough as any Lee.

    I am not a huge Lee fan, but neither am I a huge Mauser fan. The strengths of the Mauser action do translate better to a hunting rifle though, especially if handloading is a thing.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: .303's cycling rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samizat45 View Post
    Do you perhaps have any sources for that because it is a widely referenced story?
    Just google "carrots enhanced night vision" during WW2

  3. #53
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    Default Re: .303's cycling rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath Robinson View Post
    Another couple of points I haven't seen mentioned:

    At the time of the Boereoorlog, the Lee's didn't yet have stripper clip guides and the ammo came in boxes, not stripper clips. But the major issues with accuracy and training probably had as much to do with the drubbing as the speed of firing.

    Second, the primary reason for the P14 was that they wanted to change the caliber to a much higher pressure (and all around more modern) cartridge for which the Lee action was not well suited, but the war caught them out and the P14 was a stopgap using the new rifle with the old cartridge.

    Third, while commercial Mausers are indeed very slick, the wartime examples I have handled were as rough as any Lee.

    I am not a huge Lee fan, but neither am I a huge Mauser fan. The strengths of the Mauser action do translate better to a hunting rifle though, especially if handloading is a thing.
    I find it quite funny that the Brits wanted to go to a Mauser-style rifle in a 7mm calibre. Obviously they have seen that somewhere and considered it to be superior.

    The fact that most of the +/-30 000 Tommies were shot with captured Lee Metfords and ammo was lost on them. Faster rates of fire do have their uses, but it was not the stripper clips that made the dumb Boers better shooters, it was their better marksmanship and tactics that did it.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: .303's cycling rate.

    It wasn't lost on them. They finally changed uniform, sorted out the sights and started service rifle target shooting.

  5. #55

    Default Re: .303's cycling rate.

    Jip, they learnt (and tried hard to implement) pretty much every lesson they could from that conflict, and most of the other they have been in. Early in WWI the Germans were complaining that every Tommy had a machine gun, so fast were they shooting those Lee's.

    It's interesting to watch how first-world armies re-invent themselves after every major conflict and end up being incorrectly equipped and trained for the next one every single time.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: .303's cycling rate.

    'Bloke on the range' on youtube has done some real rabbit hole work on doctrine, techniques and tracing the source of myths surrounding the Enfields. The videos are long but seem to be extremely well researched and his conclusions are well supported with references.

    His video about the franken rifle, which is a fascinating project on its own, goes into the whys and wherefores of shooting them fast with a bunch of live fire demos.

  7. #57

    Default Re: .303's cycling rate.

    C&Rsenal (also on Youtube) is also a wonderful resource where one can learn the sequence of development and get a very good idea of the driving forces determining the direction of said development.
    But the videos are even longer.

    However, if you want to understand how firearm development happened in the period from the widespread introduction of breech loaders to the end of the first world war, I don't think there is a better resource anywhere.

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