Contemplating a new rifle.

**SBB** · 14-05-2023, 19:17

I currently have a BSA 22 hornet , a cz 527 in 222 Rem and a howa 22-250. I play with the first 2 and the latter I use a lot. So much so that I shoot stuff probably better suited to much heavier calibers. Reasoning is the low report, I can see my hits in the scope, confidence in the firearm and it's just so damn handy.

Reload so cost wise is not the end of the world. I shoot plain Jane Hornady vmax or spirepoints. Whatever I buy a batch of at the time. I must be due for a rebarrell or new rifle soon. I was playing with a 22 Dasher last year and with the faster twist rate shooting the heavier bullets it was actually a really nice piece of kit. Especially when the wind picked up. That said I always go for something I can buy ammo for in the shop if need be.

If I had to choose I'd say it depends on the brand. If I can get a mini action I'd take a 223 with a faster twist rate. If the options are a standard length action I'd go 22-250.

**Pirate** · 14-05-2023, 20:46

Originally Posted by SBB

If I had to choose I'd say it depends on the brand. If I can get a mini action I'd take a 223 with a faster twist rate. If the options are a standard length action I'd go 22-250.

Talking specifically Howa here, but the mini action mag box limits you to SAAMI max OAL, which in turn limits you to a degree on case capacity, which negates the advantage of the heavier bullets slightly, as they take up quite a bit of the case.

The short action allows you to load to longer OALs (admittedly, after a bit of modification, which I'm only halfway through), thereby extracting a little bit more case capacity and by implication, that little bit more speed. Mine's got a 1:9 twist (actually measured as 1:9.3) which stabilizes bullets up to 25mm length just fine.

**SBB** · 14-05-2023, 21:04

Originally Posted by Pirate

Talking specifically Howa here, but the mini action mag box limits you to SAAMI max OAL, which in turn limits you to a degree on case capacity, which negates the advantage of the heavier bullets slightly, as they take up quite a bit of the case.

The short action allows you to load to longer OALs (admittedly, after a bit of modification, which I'm only halfway through), thereby extracting a little bit more case capacity and by implication, that little bit more speed. Mine's got a 1:9 twist (actually measured as 1:9.3) which stabilizes bullets up to 25mm length just fine.

That abortion of a plastic detachable magazine with its horrible release button/lever is the reason I never bought a mini action. Getting a metal hinged floor plate imported for them pushes them into a different price bracket.

The reason I like my BSA hornet so much is that the BSA Hunter models all had fixed hinge floor plates ( think they came out in 22 hornet and 22 Rem only?). They are old school quality that would cost a fortune to produce now. Mini Mauser action with a full non rotating ejector claw. To master the reliable feeding of the little rimmed hornet case took some work.

As you can tell I don't like detachable magazines.. :)

**Pirate** · 14-05-2023, 21:36

Originally Posted by SBB

That abortion of a plastic detachable magazine with its horrible release button/lever is the reason I never bought a mini action. Getting a metal hinged floor plate imported for them pushes them into a different price bracket.

The Short Action has an internal box mag with a hinged floor plate.

**SBB** · 14-05-2023, 22:05

Originally Posted by Pirate

The Short Action has an internal box mag with a hinged floor plate.

I'm referring to the mini action.

**Pirate** · 14-05-2023, 22:32

Originally Posted by SBB

I'm referring to the mini action.

Understood as such

**TStone** · 15-05-2023, 05:41

It will probably be a Howa. It will definitely not be the mini action. I don't like detachable magazines on hunting rifles in general and the Howa mini action's detachable magazine system is particularly annoying.

**Stevin** · 15-05-2023, 07:19

6 ARC.

Better ballistics than a .223 but still fits in a short action, might even work on a mini action (as it has same OAL of 5.56).
Lighter recoiling than a 6.5CM, designed to shoot to a 1000yds if you believe the marketing (but seen many posts in the USA claiming it to be capable).

If you're not keen on a new bullet dia, maybe a 6.5 Grendel, same case dimensions, still better than a .223, not as good as a 6ARC ballistically, but is capable of using same bullets as 6.5CM.

**driepootx** · 15-05-2023, 07:27

A 55Vmax in a 20 inch Howa 223 with S321 = Node speed of 3087fps and pressure of 51K psi = 5000 shots per barrel.

**Adoons** · 15-05-2023, 07:38

And so the options get more and more.

On caliber discussions I am of opinion that a lot of times the purpose of said wanted rifle is forgotten. I will try to explain by using the .223 vs 6mm ARC. For the OP use, he is not in need of a caliber capable of shooting high BC, long, stabilised to 800 m bullets. The intended need or use is for out to 300 or maybe 400 m. That brings me to for instance the 25-06. It is frowned upon by many because "beyond 600 m the 6 and 6,5 CM are more consistent etc." But, for the hunter, that wants a lazer beam for hunting shots for max 300-400 m that ballistics beyond 500 or 600 m is not useful anymore. A .25-06 shoots way flatter than any Creed to 300 meters, so in my opinion makes for the better hunting caliber.

I am not familiar with the "up to 300 m trajectories" of the newer developments, so stand to be corrected, but for decent hunting distances the .223 might beat them? Or at least be only 5-10 mm short? And for hunting with a easy to load and available caliber that 5-10 mm amounts to nothing.