Cases of Firearm Use

**JhbBoy** · 08-08-2023, 11:46

Originally Posted by Bundu Ric

You also do know that there is always a case opened, the police officer on scene can not decide if it was justified or not.

I had a conversation a few years back with an ex-cop...I recall him saying that the arriving officer decides, on the face of it, if a murder charge is laid, or an inquest docket is opened. If it clearly a case of self-defence, he can open an inquest docket for which you are obliged (in law) to answer questions because you are 'a witness to an event'. If it's a case of (alleged) murder, then you can be arrested.

My issue is that it appears to be a knee-jerk reaction by cops to simply lay murder charges whenever a shooting happens....then you're in the hole for fifty grand in legal fees for the process to decide ultimately that they decline to prosecute you.

Can anybody here confirm the process of the cops being called to a shooting and then going from there?

**Carter Brink** · 08-08-2023, 11:53

Originally Posted by aimpoint

I would rather have the tools in my possession to defend myself in any life threatening situation than no tools … and worry about consequences later.

My suggestion to you is rather not carry as any hesitation to use it is already to late…

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I can see where you're coming from and I can understand.
However, it's the 'worry about consequences later' part that gets to me

**aimpoint** · 08-08-2023, 12:00

Originally Posted by Carter Brink

I can see where you're coming from and I can understand.
However, it's the 'worry about consequences later' part that gets to me

You do realize that you can innocently hit a pedestrian with your car and kill him. If the “wrong” witness and cop shows up, then you can be locked up and face murder charges…just one example

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**Carter Brink** · 08-08-2023, 12:07

Originally Posted by aimpoint

You do realize that you can innocently hit a pedestrian with your car and kill him. If the “wrong” witness and cop shows up, then you can be locked up and face murder charges…just one example

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Absolutely, I do

**Desperatezulu** · 08-08-2023, 12:17

Originally Posted by Carter Brink

A risk of life in jail vs a risk of dying at the hands common criminal
Which is worse? Not an easy question? It depends on the risks involved

I think it's a very easy question.

With respect, I think you grossly over-simplify the issues, same story with your stats argument. The choice is not "A risk of life in jail vs a risk of dying at the hands common criminal" Those are the 2 extremes with a huge array of permutations in between.

To qualify for 'life in jail' the state would need to prove you guilty of a serious criminal offence. It's extremely unlikely that a self-defence event, even if the defender makes a few errors in the process, results in a 20 year jail term. Sure it's not a guarantee but if you like stats, then that one's in your favour

Somewhat tongue in cheek, if you want to bank on stats ask yourself what the conviction rate is in good old SA. While you may be charged over an SD event, the stats suggest your chances of being convicted of anything is rather low. Getting life in jail seems rather far-fetched in that context.

https://businesstech.co.za/news/life...-south-africa/

**bluefronted** · 08-08-2023, 14:11

Given the number of protest actions on major roads and highways.
I always wonder what will I do if my vehicle is going to be torched whilst I'm inside.
If I look at my surroundings and deem that it's safer in the vehicle, will I shoot at the person(s) going to torch my vehicle. Hence I'm always wanting to get those dash cams

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**vinmarvin** · 08-08-2023, 14:24

How many people do you know(heard of/read of/braai story...not Oscar Pistorius) that used their weapon in self defense that is currently in jail? Honest question.....maybe those stats will put things into perspective.

**Cockroach** · 08-08-2023, 16:47

I know 7 people involved in DGUs. I had to count this recently for a similar question.

None were arrested.

Yes, dockets were opened and ran for years. Firearms went for ballistics. Some for years.

All bar the most recent one have their guns back and no charges.

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**M43** · 08-08-2023, 16:55

Originally Posted by Carter Brink

The 50 percent stat is an example.

I made that example because I've personally never met or spoken to anyone who has successfully gotten away with using one. This is a serious red flag to me.

The victim believed it was his only option. That's the problem. "Reasonable behavior" must be the reasonable behavior of most victims in that situation in order to be considered reasonable.

I have never met anyone who got sentenced to a term of imprisonment for acting in actual self defence. If you know of any I will gladly go and vist them in prison and report back here.

**M43** · 08-08-2023, 17:08

Originally Posted by JhbBoy

I had a conversation a few years back with an ex-cop...I recall him saying that the arriving officer decides, on the face of it, if a murder charge is laid, or an inquest docket is opened. If it clearly a case of self-defence, he can open an inquest docket for which you are obliged (in law) to answer questions because you are 'a witness to an event'. If it's a case of (alleged) murder, then you can be arrested.

My issue is that it appears to be a knee-jerk reaction by cops to simply lay murder charges whenever a shooting happens....then you're in the hole for fifty grand in legal fees for the process to decide ultimately that they decline to prosecute you.

Can anybody here confirm the process of the cops being called to a shooting and then going from there?

I have opened many Inquest dockets in my life. And so have many other cops.
If a policeman is properly trained and inteligent and knows what he is doing then opening an inquest docket is probably what is going to happen.

In the small number of cases where a member eronously openes a murder docket and arrests the person who acted in self defence the charge is usually changed to INQUEST as soon as possible and the (wrongfully) arrested defender then has the option of claiming damages for illegal arrest or "malicious prosecution" etc. You dont always read about these but trust me a large portion of SAPS budget goes into paying out these kind of things.

In the majority of shooting incidents however nobody gets shot and / or they fuck off and bleed out somewhere else.
In such cases a Docket is opened with the shooter / home owner as the complianant. In his A1 statement he will state that he shot at attacker(s) or an attacker because he feared for his life but the attackers stopped their attack and fled. In such a case only an Armed Robbery or Atempted murder docket will be opened BY the defender AGAINST the criminals who fled after being shot at.