Norinco ?

**Sean Murphy** · 25-03-2011, 12:50

Originally Posted by JS4

Ahhhh. Oops

!

My bad, sorry Sean. Assumption being the mother and all that...

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I still don't think a coat pocket is a very good place to carry any firearm though, especially with one up.

Agree with you 100%. If we new what model it was and the carry condition we would probably be able to at least guess at the mechanics of the shot being fired. Bottom line is that it was negligence on his part to carry the pistol in a unsecured manner and allow it to fall. It would just be interesting to know the actuall mechanics of what happened.

Sean.

DS · 25-03-2011, 13:08

Originally Posted by Sean Murphy

Who said it was a .45? The article does not. It may have been a Tokarev copy in 7.62 or 9mm. Or a CZ copy in 9mm. Maybe it was a 1911 copy in .45, who knows. Norinco have copied several designs.

Sean.

Sean it seems it was a Type 54 - I assumed (I know I know

) 1911 and I posted accordingly - my bad.

http://articles.wsbt.com/keyword/gun

You are correct in asking what model but the incident confirms that a pistol that does not have a firing pin block is likely to discharge due to inertia movement of the firing pin onto the primer if the pistol falls and impacts in a manner that induces inertia movement of the fp.

AFAIK the type 54 is a copy of the TT-33 the design of which is based on the 1911 although somewhat simplified.

**1911** · 25-03-2011, 13:09

Most Norinco's, with very few exceptions, have full lentgh firing pins. This means that when the hammer is fully forward/flat against the slide, the firing pin is protruding/sticking out from the breechface.

With a cartridge chambered that means that the firing pin is pressing into/on the primer allready. Any firearm, rifle, pistol, revolver, only needs a slight blow on the hammer to cause detonation of the primer.

Full lentgh firing pins are however not confined to Norinco's and are sometimes found in some of the older firearms. An easy way to check is by pressing the rear/ back end of the firing pin flush with the slide/frame/receiver and to check whether the firing pin protrudes from the front of the breechface.

I have seen many of these types of AD's, with Norincos especially, but also from other makes. Most of these firearms can be made much safer by installing an inertia type firing pin. This means that the overall lentgh of the firing pin is shorter than that of the firing pin channel and as such requires a forcefull blow from the hammer to travel through the full lentgh of the firing pin channel to contact the primer.

Another extremely dangerous and accident prone "safety manouver" I constantly observe is when members of the hunting party lower the bolt on a chambered cartridge by pulling the trigger and lowering the bolt handle. This essentially forces the firing pin into contact with a chambered cartridge. Even a light blow to the bottom of the stock can result in a shot being fired.

Sorry guys, its a very short explanation. Will provide more on this later if neccessary. pressed for time...

**Sean Murphy** · 25-03-2011, 13:41

Thanks Khumba and 1911. If it was the Type 54 and if that pistol has the full length firing pin then from the reading of the OP my guess would be that the pistol was carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer lowered. This would mean that if the pistol fell on the hammer it would probably fire while pointing in a direction other than the floor. Anyone standing nearby could be hit. This is gross negligence. Not only did the owner carry the pistol in an unsecured manner but he may have been carrying it in a condition specifically not recommended for that type of pistol.

Sean.

**BigT** · 25-03-2011, 14:55

The Tok is one of a VERY short list of pistols designed to be carried on half cock.

**1911** · 25-03-2011, 15:17

The T-54 Norinco does indeed have a full lentgh firing pin, and IMO probably fell on the hammer. Very tragic incident and unfortunately one of too many I have seen or heard of.

IMO the best way to prevent an inertia type discharge with a 1911 type pistol without a firing pin block is the use of an ultralight firing pin and heavy duty firing pin spring. An inertia type discharge with this setup is highly unlikely. I have read a couple of articles published by the Association of Firearm & Toolmark Examiners (AFTE) concerning inertia type discharghes with 1911's where, IIRC, it was found that in the ideal circumstances a drop of more than 4 feet onto a solid object with the firearm landing squarely on the barrel was needed to create a dent on the primer, but not nesscesarily fire the primer. Will read up on it and post again.

**ikor** · 25-03-2011, 16:23

I'm willing to bet this was not a Norinco 1911 but rather one of the cheapo Tokarev copies they used to import.

**Teufel Hund** · 25-03-2011, 18:21

Here's a mugshot of the suspect.

**Porramedic** · 25-03-2011, 18:55

Originally Posted by BigT

The Tok is one of a VERY short list of pistols designed to be carried on half cock.

Some time back I did a call where a gent dropped a 7.62 Tok in a fanny pack. It ND'd, bullet shattered the bone in his leg and shot his best friend through the heart. A very sad call indeed

**Glocky** · 31-03-2011, 09:44

When I turned 18 I nearly bought one of these remember them selling for 699 out the box , Luckily I got a lollypop on special and decided to go for that instead.