Sierra .308 165 gr. HPBT

[deonh]

I respect your point of view but how do you explain the position that Berger bullets have taken.

Thanks, I dunno. I don't use Berger bullets. Ask Walt Berger.

You speak of big companies doing research - Berger did that and now promote the use of hunting with match bullets.

I don't know enough about Berger bullets so I visited their website. I couldn't find any research on the website stating that match bullets may be used on game and I also couldn't anything promoting such use of match bullets on game?! Berger does produce a match grade rifle bullet that they say can be used for varmint, target and hunting. What kind of hunting (birds, rodents, small soft skinned mammals etc. ) isn't clarified. Oddly enough Berger does produce and market a hunting bullet line (the VLD), which they say is to be used for hunting big game (big game in SA and big game in the USA are quite different). This seems to be the only bullet (the VLD) that Berger markets as a hunting bullet.

The question I must now ask is why would Berger even bother producing a match grade bullet that is quite suitable for hunting and then also produce a hunting bullet (the VLD)?! Anyhoo, in the FAQ section of Berger's website the following question is posed: "Do you make hunting bullet that works well on big game"? The answer contains zero reference whatsoever to Berger's match grade rifle bullets and refers (in answer) solely to their Berger Hunting VLD hunting bullet. I wonder why if, as you say the match grade bullet is quite adequate for hunting, no mention is made of their match bullet in their answer?! confused0083 Dave, I'm not saying that what you saying is false or mistaken, it's just that I'm struggling to find information to prove that it isn't (I did read the article in Handloader Magazine btw).

This is contrary to what you say but you make no mention of it!

Dave, I'm not saying anything. I'm reporting what clever people, i.e. manufacturers and writers, are saying about the issue, which forms the basis for my opinion and choice if bullets. I make no mention of what I cannot prove.

Please clear this up for me using the same argument about research from the manufacturer.

I cannot find proof to prove or clear up your statement Dave. You are the one saying that using match bullets on game is perfectly acceptable. I find a lotta warra warra on various forums about this topic and that Berger are punting their VLD bullet for hunting, which is their propriety game bullet so why wouldn't they.

I really would love you guys on a hunt where we shoot Kudu with SMKs - you will be amazed.

Cool! But only if you promise to use game bullets on game and match bullets at matches! hpy180

[Longshot]

Read the article again
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Informa...%20Article.pdf.

From the article above

A few months ago, I was invited to go on a trip to New Zealand to test a bullet that behaves very differently than any hunting bullet on the market today, the Berger VLD. The initials stand forVery Low Drag, an extremely high ballistic coefficient created by a long secant ogive, a tiny hollowpoint and a boat-tail. The VLD was designed for punching holes in paper targets, especially at longer ranges. The jacket’s very thin, about .02 inch on average, and the lead core only contains .5 percent antimony. Most lead-core hunting bullets use
cores with around 2.0 percent antimony.

In theory this would be a fine varmint bullet and a lousy big game bullet, prone to expanding on the surface of anything larger than a coyote. But some big game hunters had tried them, mostlyon deer but also on larger game, and reported incredibly fast kills – and no problems with surface wounds. The Berger people started to investigate.

The VLD is a match bullet - it says so on the box which I am looking at right now. It started as a paper puncher and ended up as a hunting bullet. So all the research that was done by the big company came down to squat! Sierra says no berger says yes, what now, do we believe the research Berger did before it recommended the VLD as a hunting bullet or after?

Khumba Ive never had to penetrate any barrier whilst hunting. I want rapid expansion and maximum damage when I hit

Ive killed more animals than I care to remember with SMK's after hunters with premium HUNTING bullets had a go.

I still use Accubonds and partitions and will continue to as long as my stash (about 500 each) lasts. If I have SMk's or VLD's in my rifle I will take a shot. Maybe one day I will wound something again, but i will bet even money that it will be my fault and not a bullets'.

[deonh]

Guys, you buggers! You've hijacked my thread! This thread is to discuss the "Sierra .308 165 gr. HPBT" (which is a game bullet used on game) and not to flog that tired old topic of whether using match bullets on game is correct / legal / ethical or not. If you want to flog that horse, start your own thread but for now, and in the spirit of this thread, can we please discuss the Sierra .308 165 gr. HPBT and its performance on game? Groot asseblief... hpy180

[Brad76]

Horses for courses guys...I agree with Deonh but then again maybe I am a little conservative in my approach as well. At the end of the day the manufacturer is probably erring on the side of caution but that being said there must be a very good and solid reason as to why they don't recomend match bullets for hunting applications.

I also think the best bullet possible / affordable should be used when hunting afterall the animal that's about to be shot has as much of survival instinct and desire for life as all of us! As hunters we have a moral (emotional I know but stilll my opinion) responsibility towards that animal to make sure the inevitable happens as quickly and as painlessly as possible and to me that means using the best components I can afford designed for the particular job at hand.

[pietskiet]

Horses for courses guys...I agree with Deonh but then again maybe I am a little conservative in my approach as well. At the end of the day the manufacturer is probably erring on the side of caution but that being said there must be a very good and solid reason as to why they don't recomend match bullets for hunting applications.

I also think the best bullet possible / affordable should be used when hunting afterall the animal that's about to be shot has as much of survival instinct and desire for life as all of us! As hunters we have a moral (emotional I know but stilll my opinion) responsibility towards that animal to make sure the inevitable happens as quickly and as painlessly as possible and to me that means using the best components I can afford designed for the particular job at hand.

+100000000000000000000000000000! I do think that we are to easely persuaded to go to premium grade bullets but to hunt whith target bullets is unethical. I love sierra and found 180gr gamekings in my 303 to verry accurate. But if i where to shoot lets say a 300 i would rather go for a premium grader. Conventional bullets work great if used whith in there capabilitys.

[Longshot]

Is it too late to appologise? Again hpy71

[deonh]

I love sierra and found 180gr gamekings in my 303 to verry accurate

Hey Piet. When are you going to eventually post a few pics of all those beasts (excluding snakes) that you've slaying with your trusty .303 at: http://www.gunsite.co.za/forum/index.php?topic=2311.0

C'mon Piet, show the manne what a real hunter can do with a warhorse .303! hpy180

[deonh]

Is it too late to appologise? Again hpy71

"It's too late to apologize, it's too late
I said it's too late to apologize, it's too late
Woahooo woah"

hpy180

[Webster]

I will never surrender!! (LOL) ;D The 165 is as close as you can get to a matchking without being called one! It is deadly on game but seldom exits - similar performance to matchkings. They kill animals dead! DEAD DEAD DEAD!!!. Watch shot placement if you are worried about meat damage. We should worry more about quick kills than meat damage!

[abhm]

. Like a pmp rep once told me: "al wat viniger hardloop as i bok met i kakebeen is....... .

i-lollipop?