Tctical Batons

**cerop** · 20-05-2011, 22:58

What are you guys' thoughts on tactical batons as defensive tools? I don't really see it as an EDC-type equipment, and the fact that you need to get relatively close to yuour assailant makes it (obviously) less practical than a firearm.

All things considered, where does a tactical baton fit in the bigger scheme of things, compared to say an edged weapon? Do any of you guys utilize it on a regular basis, or is it like the sjambok hanging behind the kitchen door?

**feroze** · 20-05-2011, 23:56

I've seen some batons and some vids of them in use. The amount of training involved to achieve any sort of skill is IMHO far more than what would be required to be proficient with a gun. Its is part of the arsenal of a regularly training martial artist and is effective in countries where firearms are banned and your attacker is similarly armed.

Skill with a knife is probably eaiser to achieve and retain. Things I like to bear in mind is I don't like people that close to me, I don't like lifts, malls, concerts, anywhere where theres crowds, I like a certain distance between me and the "public" so I would not let someone that close to me in-invited.

How much gear can you carry around, between a gun, a knife, a baton, cell phone, tear gas, keys, wallet should be a couple kilos around your waist, how is your mobility affected?

In the absence of a gun I rather stab you than whack you with a baton!

**ikor** · 21-05-2011, 06:04

Depends on the circumstances. I see some potential in something like the Monadnock 'Jr' models for EDC. IMO there is a definite place for something between empty hands and a full on blade or gun response under certain conditions. Now the guys who EDC a decent size folder and get some training may be able to also use it as an impact weapon (the AMOK! guys teach this along with some other trainers) but something like a 'cosh' or small collapsible baton does not require you to draw or have a blade in your hand. (that may be 'good' or not so good) A sturdy, small and powerful torch can also be used, etc.

Like most tools, skill and the user make far more difference than the tool(s). Just don't be guilty of an inappropriate response, and by that I mean don't try and deploy an impact weapon when a deadly force response is called for and vice versa.

http://www.batons.com/autolock_jr.html

**StefanM** · 21-05-2011, 14:11

The amount of skill needed to effectively used any weapon system only comes with practise and lots of it. Hitting someone with a stick is one of the most ancient responces to aggresion, and is far simpler than stabbing or cutting an attacker into submission. In addition to this, breaking a knee or collarbone will end a one on one fight much faster than stabbing a guy.

Also, to my mind, having slightly more reach, and not worrying about getting AIDS, is a good thing.

Police forces issue many forms of sticks, but few knives, to officers.

**cerop** · 21-05-2011, 14:18

Actually what I was thinking as well, re the bit more reach part. I agree, as with everything, it comes down to training and practice practice practice, and I think in a CQC type scenario it might prove more efficient than a blade, especially considering slightly less precision is probably required to get an effective strike on a target?

**30.06** · 21-05-2011, 14:22

Depending on the situation an ASP can be useful.

**wthang** · 21-05-2011, 16:56

There is a definite place for ASP's but they are often noisy and irritating to carry. Ikor makes a good point that you don't have to expand it necessarily to utilise. This obviously goes for other weapons as well.

I disagree with Feroze - Using the ASP extended or retracted like a kubaton in a basic manner is easier to learn and retain a level of skill set than a knife. Also remember that most people adapt to a baton easier than a blade. One of the blade seminars a participated in a few years back had someone leave half way through when he realised the objective might very well be to kill the attacker.

**feroze** · 21-05-2011, 23:00

You have valid points wthang, but for me I've always had a knife somewhere around me, on the table, in the car, in my pocket. I'm comfortable with one, its so easy for me to conceal and always at hand versus carrying a baton, and if I have I will use it if need be.

**Wanderin' Zero** · 22-05-2011, 08:22

Originally Posted by feroze

How much gear can you carry around, between a gun, a knife, a baton, cell phone, tear gas, keys, wallet should be a couple kilos around your waist, how is your mobility affected?

You left out the FN Mag and phosphorous grenades!

**prepare2win** · 22-05-2011, 08:54

Knives are up there with guns when it comes to lethality. A baton is a great less-lethal option, though obviously you could kill someone with a baton if you tried. It really depends on correct tool choice for the given task and desired outcome.

While batons give you some reach, they do need space to work (punyo/buttstrikes aside) whereas a knife can still be lethal at ECQ/grappling ranges. once your target is inside your stick's effective striking arc, its not much good unless you have trained in stick grappling (Dog Brothers/ Sayoc Kali have some good stuff here)

I personally am less concerned about arresting someone with minimal force/damage, than I am about taking out multiple aggressors intent on killing me, so I choose to carry a knife and pepperspray (until I get my firearm license)

think about it from the BG's perspective- would you rather take on a guy armed with a stick, or a blade?