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Thread: Your CCW
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04-07-2011, 09:59 #11
Re: Your CCW
Spike;
Thank you so very much for helping me demonstrate this point clearly. Make all the excuses you want. Justify to yourself whatever it is you prefer to do for whatever reason(s) you wish.
You will have the rest of your life to find out if you are right or not.Run Fast, Bite Hard!
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04-07-2011, 11:29 #12
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
- Location
- Gauteng ZA
- Age
- 70
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- 477
Re: Your CCW
I agree 100% with the logics of your argument. The fact remains that most people on the forum are enthusiasts and for most this is their sport.
For the rest of the Joe Soaps out there who prefer golf to shooting, I would rather have them carry a moosegun than nothing. This include women who just shy away from the heavier or more expensive pistols. That said there are loads of people in our country who can not afford to take 10k from the childern's schoolfund for a weapon and another 12k a year for ammo. Again I would prefer them to have a second tier firearm as opposed to no gun. I am certain they know they are not in as good a position as a one of the forums enthusiasts, even if they defend their choice tooth and nail. But again I have seen some mouseguns give good service as carry guns when the persons practice with some other firearm.
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04-07-2011, 11:41 #13
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
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- 1,577
Re: Your CCW
Whats "DPF"?
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04-07-2011, 11:56 #14
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Age
- 47
- Posts
- 1,322
Re: Your CCW
My 2c Worth.( as a reformed mousegun carrier).
This is South Africa. Prepare to meet 4 assailants. Anything less and it will be a pleasant surprise.
If you want to survive an engagement with perhaps multiple assailants, you need to have the mindset of a gunfighter.
A gunfighter will have the best weapon, most rounds and best bullets. You will mentally prepare for the 4 Guys you will will be meeting outside your gate or at the service station.
You need to understand that they could be doped up and will not hesitate to hurt you.
I still use my mousegun when I am working in the garden or am around the braai ( within my own home), but once i am outside my property, Its top tier all the way because the fight is going to be fast and extremely violent. Even if am seeing people off at the gate, I will ensure i have my GLOCK with me.
I dont want to have to count rounds and I want to know that if I am registering hits on them, that I am creating the most trauma possible short of me going to fetch my hunting rifle.
A 380 auto falls far short of these requirements. It can work if you are shooting at a guy outside your house whilst you are inside, but once any barriers are removed, then you want to be able to smash bone and penetrate from any and all angles and through any amount of clothing.
If I lived in Germany, where assailants came in singles then a 380 auto might work, but the SA situation is almost an all or nothing situation.
As i write this, I have come to the conclusion that we do not have a choice.
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04-07-2011, 12:19 #15
Re: Your CCW
I don't think that its a question of training or practice or mindset.
Mouseguns are, any way you slice it, inferior to and less efficient than, service pistols.
The calibres that these things are typically chambered in can balistically only do so much. The small frames can only hold so much ammo.
A super marksman with a .32 may score a perfect headshot, only to find that his deficient calibre may fail to penetrate the brain box.
I have no difficulty with those who carry these because its what they can afford or its what they have. As long as they don't fabricate reasons to give to others or to themselves that these guns are "as good as" service pistols in service calibres.Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But I know one thing that never dies,
the glory of the great dead.
Havamal
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04-07-2011, 12:29 #16
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Posts
- 4,975
Re: Your CCW
my .380Auto DKL was the be all and end all for me. It too was bought on a very fine budget and i was under the impression that it was all that is required.
I realized in the first 5 minutes of the gunfight fundamentals course that I was undergunned, had too little capacity and that the "deep concealement" method of carry I adopted was a joke. I had a FALSE sense of security and am so happy i attended that course and i saw the light. Yes I did the training and was better off than i started, but 4 guys, with 6+1 rounds of ammo... ja.
I remember clear and well what a moderator on this forum said to me. "Real friends dont let friends buy mouse guns"
They have their place, for sure, as stated by tweety above. But they are severely lacking and failure to admit that is only detrimental to the user.
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04-07-2011, 21:29 #17
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Age
- 53
- Posts
- 958
Re: Your CCW
Aaah I see. A mom would rather risk her young's life with inferior defensive tools than waste money on a more reliable tool so that she can buy clothes for kids that have already been eaten by predators because her cheaper tool jammed and/or failed to stop the predators.
Makes perfect sense....
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04-07-2011, 22:39 #18
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05-07-2011, 01:55 #19
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Columbia, SC
- Age
- 66
- Posts
- 507
Re: Your CCW
Mouse guns do have their place, better to have one in your pocket than the wondernine in the safe. The 32 Keltec takes 10 round mags and one up the spout, and they are more accurate than you think at 10 meters. Your chances of surviving an attack against 4 bad guys with AK's even with a 15 shot 9 is pretty slim.
I gave a few wounded coyotes the coup-de-grace with a 32 as a test, and it killed them just dandy and normally shot right through the skull.
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05-07-2011, 06:37 #20
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Age
- 46
- Posts
- 29,307
Re: Your CCW
There's a big difference between appliying a coup de grace and stopping a homicidal attacker. The mindset of I can't take on four guys is a fail. That's likely what you will have to do so deal with it and equip your self as necessary. As for the whole mousegun on you beats a wondernine at home. Guess what a wondernine on you beats both. As has been mentioned people can try convince every one and them selves about how fanatstic mouseguns are. Please find me one person who after a gunfight said " gee I wish I had a smaller harder to shoot less powerful gun with fewer bullets in it"Carrying an actual gun is harder than carrying a stupid little pocket pistol. But then again ask yourself why exactly are you carrying a gun? Is it jewellary? Is it so you can wax lyrical about sheep and wolves and other malarky. Or is it to stop bad people hurting and killing you and yours.I think SSP hit it on the head. If people want to make bad choices that's there choice an they will live with the consequences. But they shouldn't try to convince everyone else to make their mistakes so they don feel alone.
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