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  1. #21
    Member abhm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Competition VS Defensive shooting

    Paul IMO I would think that this report is onto a good track in terms of the conversion element (training) and again some people adopt training far more readily than others. I would differ possibly with the intelligence aspect and would cite the examples of the Ghurka's who generally make excellent soldiers now as in any population sector some will be intelligent and some wont be but their lifestyle is focused on preparing them for the role of being a soldier (training discipline, stamina, innovation, adaptability etc from a young age) and yes whilst certain training elements will enhance the profiles I dont think that it is a secretor vs non secretor issue but I might be wrong, possibly the body could learn to become a secretor vs non secretor I do know however that the training teaches you and your body about what it can actually do and thereby removes your own inhibiting standards as set by your mind!
    I do think we agree that the more training (or flying by the seat of your pants, I love that expression by the way!) you do the better you can enhance your OODA loop, increase your SA and enhance your mindset the better you will be, my caveat is to do it correctly because what you internalize takes a long time to correct!
    I am studying an awesome brand of leg fighting which was inspired by dung beetles and I think my brand of Kraft Manure is superior to all other styles ever invented. Furthermore I challenge all other manurists to a rolling contest where we shall establish whose manure ball is the biggest! I shall call it Honest Kraft Manure and declare it superior to all other brands of manure and will tell you that I have claimed the lineage directly to Imshi the great Dragon Kru Master Beetler who invented manuring, by gathering all manure from different animals together and making it work as the worlds most effective fertilizer. I proved myself by being members of not one but three super elite special gardening departments who were responsible for spreading manure to combat weed infestations!

  2. #22

    Default Re: Competition VS Defensive shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by wesson357
    I sure love to see how fast the IPSC chaps can shoot with a production gun however when you talk to them you will find out that the gun is tweaked within the limits of the rules.

    If you consider the new CZ pistols that are IPSC approved, are in fact target guns as they shoot unbelievable groups for a so called standard production gun.
    That is why I just love the Production Gun Division of IPSC as it gives me the opportunity to compete in a sporting environment with my EDC gun....my Glock 17 (and from time to time my Vektor SP1). I prefer to shoot what I carry and carry what I shoot.....

    This is why I also love participating in both IPSC and IDPA (unfortunately no IDPA currently as there is no local club!!!!!) as it forces me to switch between two different set of rules and I believe that the ability to switch between these two, helps you to be able to switch to 'street savvy' easier as you are used to switching......

    I participate in Sport Shooting as I enjoy it and it gives me time to practice my shooting ability and skills. To me it remains a good practice field BUT you have to understand that it is not TACTICAL TRAINING and that it does have its limitations......

  3. #23
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Competition VS Defensive shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Corné
    (unfortunately no IDPA currently as there is no local club!!!!!)
    Start one. ;D

    If you build it they will come.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  4. #24
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Competition VS Defensive shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SSP
    Start one. ;D
    If you build it they will come.
    You can call your range The Field of Screams whp
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

  5. #25

    Default Re: Competition VS Defensive shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SSP
    Quote Originally Posted by Corné
    (unfortunately no IDPA currently as there is no local club!!!!!)
    Start one. ;D

    If you build it they will come.
    True words......but unfortunately I am in the contracting environment and not long enough down this side to start something like this. If you can't finish it....do not start it....and I would not be able to finish it.... :-\

    However I have given the local club a taste of IDPA from time to time.....

  6. #26
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    Default

    The most important function of defensive shooting is teaching efficient weapons handling.

    Practical Pistol [SADPA / IDPA ] teaches by using a normal carry weapon, daily carry holster, shooting from cover, tactical target aquisition and reloading from cover. In short, muscle memory skills that can be applied in real life scenarios.

    IPSC works very differently, and the game and its equipment is so far removed from possible defensive handgun scenarios that it ends up being just a game.

    Efficient weapons handling is just the beginning of defensive shooting training, and everyone that has a weapon for self-defense should invest the time and effort to learn how to use their weapon in random scenarios, under some form of stress.

    The culmination of any skill is practical experience. A Master of IDPA is just that, a Master at IDPA, not a Master at defensive handgun.

    To be truly skilled at defensive handgun requires practical experience which only active duty in the police or military can give, provided you live long enough to get the experience.

  7. #27
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    Default

    -- oops ---
    Last edited by 414gates; 22-02-2010 at 09:03. Reason: duplicate post

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 414gates View Post

    To be truly skilled at defensive handgun requires practical experience which only active duty in the police or military can give, provided you live long enough to get the experience.
    What do you base this statement on? Many civilians have had the misfortune of fighting with their handguns. Generally without back up armour or any of the good things that police and military often have access to.
    "Learning only occurs after repetitive ,demoralizing failures!"

    Pat Rogers (RIP)

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by 414gates View Post

    To be truly skilled at defensive handgun requires practical experience which only active duty in the police or military can give.

    The civilian is always at the front line, cops generally are there after the fact.
    "Guns are just tools, the way they're used reflects the society they're apart of, if you don't like guns, blame it on society" ~Chris Kyle

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    What do you base this statement on?
    1. The fact that the sport provides weapons handling skill of a certain level.
    2. The fact that encounters requiring a firearm in self-defence require that skill as a basis for the response.

    Being prepared to respond with lethal force is a mind-set that is developed like any other skill, which sport shooting doesn't cover. It is also not limited to firearms.

    The original post questioned the value of sport shooting as a readiness for defensive pistol shooting. My response to that is simply that sport shooting can form a good basis for defensive pistol shooting skill, but to become proficient at defensive pistol shooting requires a level of practice in the field, which the average civilian thankfully is not exposed to.

    By defensive pistol shooting, I'm assuming we're referring to real life situations that require pistol shooting in defense, not the sport. If not, my response is irrelevant.

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