Wetpack test in 40 S & W

**CorBon** · 15-05-2012, 17:43

Originally Posted by Brendank

CorBon
There is a later test done by TNOutdoors9 using ballistic type gel, a better representation imo.

And right you are...better expansion in that one.

**JS4** · 15-05-2012, 17:44

Thanks for the PM CB - much appreciated.

It's all good mate!

Now... where were we..?

**Brendank** · 15-05-2012, 17:55

Originally Posted by JS4

Thanks for the PM CB - much appreciated.

It's all good mate!

Now... where were we..?

Now that's how its done!!

**GROM G27** · 15-05-2012, 19:16

Howzit Guys!

Sorry, don't want to hijack anyones thread, if i am out of line, please tell me.
Just want to post some more pics in this thread, sorry for the large size, 5mp is as low as my digital camera goes, i think!

Thought i would post pics of another test, Winchester .40 165 gr T-Series vs Win Ranger SXT .40 165 gr (Black Talon in brass case circa 97')
All Shot out of a GLOCK 27, first on line into water second in line fired into wetpack covered in blue overalls.(Exactly same test).

From left to right
T-series fired into water -next- T-series into the wetpack -next- Black talon into water -next- Black talon into the wetpack

DSC08000.jpg DSC08001.jpg DSC08002.jpg

Say what you will, my favourite out of these two rounds is still the Ranger SXT.
Softer shooting(could be the age of the rounds), more accurate out of my gun (shot does not feel as abrupt (snap) as newer ranger t out of my gun).
People talk about improved expansion on Ranger T which is absolutely true however looks like the Black talon performed pretty good to me, if that means not expanding against a rabid biker wearing four layers of denim so be it!

**CorBon** · 15-05-2012, 19:29

Originally Posted by GROM G27

Howzit Guys!

Sorry, don't want to hijack anyones thread, if i am out of line, please tell me.
Just want to post some more pics in this thread, sorry for the large size, 5mp is as low as my digital camera goes, i think!

Thought i would post pics of another test, Winchester .40 165 gr T-Series vs Win Ranger SXT .40 165 gr (Black Talon in brass case circa 97')
All Shot out of a GLOCK 27, first on line into water second in line fired into wetpack covered in blue overalls.(Exactly same test).

From left to right
T-series fired into water -next- T-series into the wetpack -next- Black talon into water -next- Black talon into the wetpack

Say what you will, my favourite out of these two rounds is still the Ranger SXT.
Softer shooting(could be the age of the rounds), more accurate out of my gun (shot does not feel as abrupt (snap) as newer ranger t out of my gun).
People talk about improved expansion on Ranger T which is absolutely true however looks like the Black talon performed pretty good to me, if that means not expanding against a rabid biker wearing four layers of denim so be it!

That sure is interesting. Pity we can't get those Black Talons anymore...

**ikor** · 15-05-2012, 19:55

CB...you are welcome to believe whatever you wish, but Marshall and Sanow were as full of shit as a Christmas turkey and so was their little 'study'. They were caught out in lie after lie, including...but certainly not limited to...statements supposedly given to them by LE officers and agencies who have testified under oath since that no such things were ever said.

This is but one of a host of articles debunking M&S and their so-called 'data'

http://www.firearmstactical.com/mars...crepancies.htm

In addition, most full time gun writers are dingbats...do you know any? I do...several in fact, and not the first one is really much of an expert on anything other than taking free shit and writing whatever will get them noticed or makes their sponsors happy. Certainly Guns & Ammo is no paragon of truth. They have printed undocumented information so many times one cannot count them. I don't need to call them to know that either. They have never printed a really bad review of ANY gun or product that advertised with them...hmmm

Lastly that 135gr load was tried for some time by the US Border Patrol, who apparently bought into the M&S BS for a while. They found the same thing they had been told they would find...namely that when it worked it would probably work well, but that it was dangerously lacking on penetration and would be very inconsistant. They have since changed...the probable reason the 135gr loads are now available for commercial sale. (there is no more LE market)

Don't get defensive about all this...you are not the first to be seduced by M&S and their BS 'study'. Also don't take my word for any of it...do the research yourself. There is plenty of material (although not everything) on line now.

**CorBon** · 15-05-2012, 20:07

Originally Posted by ikor

CB...you are welcome to believe whatever you wish, but Marshall and Sanow were as full of shit as a Christmas turkey and so was their little 'study'. They were caught out in lie after lie, including...but certainly not limited to...statements supposedly given to them by LE officers and agencies who have testified under oath since that no such things were ever said.

This is but one of a host of articles debunking M&S and their so-called 'data'

http://www.firearmstactical.com/mars...crepancies.htm

In addition, most full time gun writers are dingbats...do you know any? I do...several in fact, and not the first one is really much of an expert on anything other than taking free shit and writing whatever will get them noticed or makes their sponsors happy. Certainly Guns & Ammo is no paragon of truth. They have printed undocumented information so many times one cannot count them. I don't need to call them to know that either. They have never printed a really bad review of ANY gun or product that advertised with them...hmmm

Lastly that 135gr load was tried for some time by the US Border Patrol, who apparently bought into the M&S BS for a while. They found the same thing they had been told they would find...namely that when it worked it would probably work well, but that it was dangerously lacking on penetration and would be very inconsistant. They have since changed...the probable reason the 135gr loads are now available for commercial sale. (there is no more LE market)

Don't get defensive about all this...you are not the first to be seduced by M&S and their BS 'study'. Also don't take my word for any of it...do the research yourself. There is plenty of material (although not everything) on line now.

Thanks Ikor. My gut feel led me to use the GD 165GR as it seems to be the best middle of the range...

**Brendank** · 16-05-2012, 09:50

Originally Posted by CorBon

That sure is interesting. Pity we can't get those Black Talons anymore...

Believe me, the Ranger T series is a massive step up from the Black Talon SXT and later Ranger SXT.
The redesign has gone a long way to address issues like core jacket slippage/separation with the earlier Ranger SXT. This is esp true for the 127gr +P+ 9x19 version.

**CorBon** · 16-05-2012, 12:47

Originally Posted by Brendank

Believe me, the Ranger T series is a massive step up from the Black Talon SXT and later Ranger SXT.
The redesign has gone a long way to address issues like core jacket slippage/separation with the earlier Ranger SXT. This is esp true for the 127gr +P+ 9x19 version.

Ah yes I remember getting a few bullets serarating when shot into mud..

**Adri** · 16-05-2012, 12:58

Originally Posted by GROM G27

Nice test Dirk.

Hornady 155gr XTP for the win! Expansion and great penetration in all my tests. It always outpenetrates 180 gr jhp's, i guess that's because the expanded diameter is a little

.

Hi Grom, have you used reloaded xtp or shop bought? I am getting stopages with xtp reloads, then used taper crimps but still got the odd stopage.

Regards