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  1. #1
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    Default S16 and S21 applications for NEA-15 and A300 begin their journey.

    I phoned CFR on Tuesday (24 July 2012) and was pleasantly surprised to find out that my further competencies for shotgun, rifle and HMC had been approved on Monday (23rd July 2012). I had handed them in on the 13th of June. I went and handed in my license applications (Section 16 and Section 21 as that had worked well for me last time) this morning (26 July 2012).

    Several things stood out as odd/surprising.

    - I firstly asked for the printout of my competency certificate, which they duly complied with (after about a 5 minute wait because the system was slow). I then asked if I could get 4 copies (for my applications, which I had in my hand but did not mention). They said no, they can only print 1 copy and the device which I thought was a copier was only a scanner. I then asked if they knew of a place close by where I could go get copies made (they didn't) and if they would look over my applications while I went to get the copies. Then they said that if it's for the applications then they will simply print the copies for me (they couldn't do this when I did my G23 application in March 2012) *sigh*. There is a lady and a gentleman there, the gentleman was the one that stated they couldn't print it and then that they could. The lady gave him a rather quizzical look but said nothing. The gentleman was not present when I did my G23 application though.

    - While the lady was going through my documentation she asked where my training certificate was. It was my turn to give the quizzical look. Stating that I did not know that it was needed for the licence application and only the competency application. She said nothing and just continued going through the applications. Though I seem to recall her asking the same thing about the G23 application and thinking it odd then to.

    - I was waiting for them to give me the papers to start filling it in for the finger prints... thinking what a schlep it was going to be to get all that black ink off of my hands again... when they said that was all. I enquired if they don't need to take fingerprints for the applications and they just said no. I said, Awesome, bid them good day and left.

    AFAIK they will only start their actual journey to CFR next Wednesday... but hoping it will be as rapid as my previous applications. *holding huge thumbs*

  2. #2
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    Default Re: S16 and S21 applications for NEA-15 and A300 begin their journey.

    Sound good.

    Please take note that once you are certified by SAPS as competent you are exactly that ito of the FCA and you do not have to submit training certificates or finger print sets for licence apps and Section 21 apps. That is the whole point of being Competent ito of the FCA.

    There are DFOs that may think that you need to do finger prints every time even though you are competent but they are wrong.

    Applicants who comply with request for finger print sets and certificates create precedent and make the DFO think after a time that is a requirement.

    I refuse when I am asked to do that and request that DFO hand in my apps (Section 16, 21,15) without it and they have complied everytime.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: S16 and S21 applications for NEA-15 and A300 begin their journey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    Applicants who comply with request for finger print sets and certificates create precedent and make the DFO think after a time that is a requirement.
    Agree. That's kinda my point too with the 350a forms.

    It really is staggering to think how poorly trained the DFO staff is. It's not exactly rocket-science.
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    Sound good.

    Please take note that once you are certified by SAPS as competent you are exactly that ito of the FCA and you do not have to submit training certificates or finger print sets for licence apps and Section 21 apps. That is the whole point of being Competent ito of the FCA.

    There are DFOs that may think that you need to do finger prints every time even though you are competent but they are wrong.

    Applicants who comply with request for finger print sets and certificates create precedent and make the DFO think after a time that is a requirement.

    I refuse when I am asked to do that and request that DFO hand in my apps (Section 16, 21,15) without it and they have complied everytime.
    Do you include in your statement the trigger finger print?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: S16 and S21 applications for NEA-15 and A300 begin their journey.

    Damn. Are there even two DFO's in SA that will give you the same story?

    They took my fingerprints - twice - when I applied a few weeks ago. I just let them do it because after an hour of heated competency validity "negotiations" I had to go and earn a living.

    Also, why would you need a training certificate for renewing a competency? You would not have gotten the competency if you did not have the training certificate the first time. I don't even know where that thing is any more.

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    Default Re: S16 and S21 applications for NEA-15 and A300 begin their journey.

    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    Damn. Are there even two DFO's in SA that will give you the same story?
    Wouldn't it be nice to have a Unit Standard for DFOs?
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: S16 and S21 applications for NEA-15 and A300 begin their journey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy The Kid View Post
    Do you include in your statement the trigger finger print?
    No I do not - that is why I specified "finger print sets".

    Imo it is necessary to comply with the single finger print on the statement - I do.

    Complying with non required documentation creates a precedent and you have to ask yourself what is next.

    When everybody starts doing it just to get rid of the irritation of trying to convince them it is not necessary a precedent is set and the DFO starts to think it is required.

    What are they going to dream up next _ an affidavit to say you are still sane, or a department of Home Affairs Certified copy of your birth certificate - any thing is possible. Do we just comply , comply, comply?
    Last edited by DS; 27-07-2012 at 08:35.

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    Default Re: S16 and S21 applications for NEA-15 and A300 begin their journey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    Applicants who comply with request for finger print sets and certificates create precedent and make the DFO think after a time that is a requirement.
    very true.
    but the local DFO here is so goddamn useless already, it's like trying to convince him the planet is round.

    this is the same guy who guaranteed me you cannot get a license for a SLR at all and just about shat himself when he saw the pics of the 15-22 in the app ....

    like the penguins said, "just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"

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    Default Re: S16 and S21 applications for NEA-15 and A300 begin their journey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    Do we just comply , comply, comply?
    To be absolutely crystal clear on this. I (and I'm 100% certain Mr K also) comply with every single law that I am aware of. Scrupulously.

    I was lectured by a rude lady from the DFO's office at SAPS Benoni a few weeks ago who told me: "Meneer, you must comply with the law!", I asked her to please quote me the provisions of the law/regulation/instruction which requires that copies of 350a forms must accompany 271 apps. She told me that I was not her client and she didn't have to do anything for me. I asked to speak with the DFO, Captain Oelofse, who first tried to tell me it was an instruction from CFR and, when asked for a reference to this instruction, backed down and told me that he would accept the 271 without the copy of the 350a. A week later he admitted to my client that he had lied to me over the phone just to get me off the line, and that he had no intention of doing his duty and forwarding the 271 app.

    That's where we end up when every Tom, Dick and Hennie gets to make up his own rules.
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

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    Default

    I've also on both my apps argued that I didn't require fingerprinting, whereby the DFO replied that that can't send an app in without it...so both times I just complied so that my app can go in, sven though I know CFR just bins the fingerprints...

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