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  1. #11

    Default Re: Ruger Mini-14 & 10/22 something of the past?

    i am a collector with SAAACA and a gun does not have to be old or discontinued for "X" amount of time before it may enter a collection. I have Glock under my one theme, and they are not old at all, as well as being in current production and deployed the world over, in other words. you given theme dictates what is collectible to you and what is not...

  2. #12

    Default Re: Ruger Mini-14 & 10/22 something of the past?

    Andy,read the amendments to the act as posted by WZ.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Ruger Mini-14 & 10/22 something of the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by andy_760901 View Post
    i am a collector with SAAACA and a gun does not have to be old or discontinued for "X" amount of time before it may enter a collection. I have Glock under my one theme, and they are not old at all, as well as being in current production and deployed the world over, in other words. you given theme dictates what is collectible to you and what is not...
    We are talking modern semi-autos(rifles) here and as I understand that if it wasn't for the collector associations fighting for us there would have been nothing.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Ruger Mini-14 & 10/22 something of the past?

    Amendment of Regulation 15
    10. Regulation 15 of the regulations is hereby amended by the -
    (a) substitution for the heading of the following:
    "Prohibited firearms, and devices or restricted firearms
    that may be licensed in a private collection";
    (b) substitution for the words preceding paragraph (a) of the
    following:
    "The following prohibited firearms, [and] devices or
    restricted firearms may be licensed under section 17 of the Act:"
    (c) substitution for paragraph (a) of the following
    paragraph:
    "(a) A prohibited firearm and device contemplated in section 4 of
    the Act or restricted firearm that may be possessed in 20 No.35047 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 17 FEBRUARY 2012
    terms of the transitional provisions in [Annexure] Schedule
    1 of the Act;"
    (d) the substitution for the words preceding subparagraph (i) in
    paragraph (b) of the following:
    "(b) A prohibited firearm and device contemplated in
    section 4 of the ;~ct or a restricted firearm which does not
    fall under paragraph (a), which must not be less than 50
    years old. calculated from the date of its manufacture,
    together with an attribute of its collectivity regarding its
    historical, technological, scientific, heritage, educational,
    cultural, commemorative. investment, raritv. thematic [and]
    .QI artistic value or any other aspect, as may be deemed
    appropriate by the accredited association and agreed to by
    the Registrar: Provided that if the prohibited firearm or
    device or restricted firearm does not readily conform to the
    said combination of age and attribute of collectability, one or
    more of the following further considerations may apply-".
    (e) the substitution for subsubparagraph (i) of paragraph (b) of
    the following subsubparagraph:
    "(i) that its production has been discontinued for at
    least 1 0 years with the real likelihood of it
    becoming of collectable interest from a
    historical, technological, scientific. heritage,
    educational, cultural. commemorative.
    investment, rarity, thematic or artistic
    perspective:".
    (h) the substitution for paragraph (c) of the following
    paragraph:
    "(c) A miniature canon of greater than 13 mm bore
    which is not a muzzle loading canon;" and
    (i) the insertion of paragraph (d): STAATSKOERANT, 17 FEBRUARIE 2012 No. 35047 21
    "(d) A breech loading canon which must not be less
    than 50 years old and which is of significant
    Southern African historical or heritage value
    under the National Heritage Resources Act.
    1999 (Act No. 25 of 1999).".

  5. #15

    Default Re: Ruger Mini-14 & 10/22 something of the past?

    I wonder who helped them with that? They didn't think it up all by themselves.
    "Guns are just tools, the way they're used reflects the society they're apart of, if you don't like guns, blame it on society" ~Chris Kyle

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Ruger Mini-14 & 10/22 something of the past?

    Here is what Adv John Welch wrote regarding the amended Regulation 15:

    1. The amendment of Reg 15 is significant in that whereas it previously provided for the licensing of prohibited firearms and devices only it is now also applicable to restricted firearms. Restricted firearms follow all reference to prohibited firearms and devices in this regulation. Therefore, the same strict conditions and requirements are applicable to restricted firearms. These prohibited and restricted firearms may be licensed as follows under s17 of the Act:
      1. Reg 15(a) [amendment] - Any such firearm that may be possessed in Act. This means that had a permit been issued for the possession of a prohibited firearm under the previous Act, such permit remains valid until the expiry thereof stipulated thereon, unless terminated, cancelled or surrendered in terms of this Act. A license for a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun remained valid in accordance with item 1 of the transitional provisions. Automatic renewal based on the transitional provisions should not be assumed. Therefore, since the period during which licenses under the old Act had to be renewed has lapsed, all such licenses have terminated. However, because of the legal intervention by the SA Hunters and Game Conservation, a court order was granted (29 June 2009) declaring that all those licenses remain valid until the order is withdrawn or a new arrangement is made. SAGA will also request the court to declare all licenses issued under the previous Act valid until such firearms are disposed of or the owner dies.
      2. Reg 15(b) [amendment] – A prohibited firearm or device or a restricted firearm may be licensed if it does not fall under sub-reg (a), if it is not less than 50 years old (calculated from its date of manufacture, together with a collective attribute regarding its historical, technological, scientific, heritage, educational, cultural, commemorative, investment, rarity, thematic or artistic value or any other aspect deemed appropriate by the accredited collectors’ association and agreed to by the Registrar; provided that if the prohibited firearm or device or restricted firearm does not readily conform to the said combination of age and collectability, one or more of the considerations referred to in (b)(i) – (x) may apply. [Since these additional considerations are so important I shall repeat them even though most have not been amended.]

    (b)(i) [amendment] – Its production has been discontinued for at least 10 years with the real likelihood of it becoming of collectable interest from a historical, technological, scientific, heritage, educational, cultural, commemorative, investment, rarity, thematic or artistic perspective;
    (b)(ii) [no amendment] – It is part of a commemorative issuance or limited edition;
    (b)(iii) [no amendment] – It will fit in as part of a demonstrable theme of future value, where a real likelihood of such future value can be sufficiently demonstrated or motivated;
    (b)(iv) [no amendment] – It has a proven or generally accepted association with famous or infamous people or events;
    (b)(v) [no amendment] – Its current national or international scarcity or rarity based on an acceptable reason;
    (b)(vi) [no amendment] – Its unusual or unique design, materials or method of manufacture of historic interest;
    (b)(vii) [no amendment] – It is a custom or one-off building by a well-known gun maker or gun smith, of significant value;
    (b)(viii) [no amendment] – It is a prototype or part of a limited production run;
    (b)(ix) [no amendment] – It is a replica of a well-known historical firearm; or
    (b)(x) [no amendment] – It is an investment grade firearm or device of significant value.

    IMPORTANT NOTES RE REG. 15:

    1. It may be much easier to prove the collectability of a Vickers heavy machine-gun than a Ruger Mini-14.
    2. Because the words “further considerations” are used in 15(b) one must infer that these considerations are applied in addition to what is stated in the main text of 15(b). I am satisfied beyond doubt, though, that if, for instance, a restricted firearm is not older than 50 years and it does not have any of the collectable attributes referred to in 15(b), one would be entitled to only look at each and every of the considerations in (i) – (x).
    3. The considerations referred to under (i) to (x) above are applicable ONLY to the proviso clause in Reg 15(b).
    4. Any number of the considerations may find application.
    5. Since there is a semi-colon (;) at the end of each sentence followed by the word “or” between (ix) and (x), each semi-colon is interpreted to mean “or” (not “and”).
    6. Whenever a consideration is used to justify collectability of a prohibited firearm or device or restricted firearm please ensure that the applicant provides comprehensive and detailed proof. The classification committee must be convinced of the collectability of such firearm or device. To what extent must the committee be convinced? In law one would say “on a preponderance or balance of probabilities”, therefore more than 50% or more probable than improbable. It would be wrong to expect proof “beyond reasonable doubt”.
    7. Concepts such as “value, significant value, future value, famous or infamous people or events, scarcity or rarity, unique design, well-known, etc.” must be interpreted on the established facts. The committee must make a ruling or finding as to the meaning of these concepts, but it must be based on the proof provided by the applicant. Contrary to a court of law, the committee, which usually consists of experts in the field of firearms and ammunition collection, may apply its members’ personal knowledge and expertise when considering an application.
    8. Immediately prior to the proviso clause in Reg 15(b) it is stated that the Registrar must agree with the finding by the accredited association. This “agreement” means that if the accredited association found the item collectable based on an attribute other than those mentioned, such attribute needs to be agreed to by the Registrar.
      1. 15(c) is amended in that the miniature cannon is qualified with “of greater than 13mm bore which is not a muzzle loading canon”. [Note the different spelling of canon]. A miniature muzzle loading cannon will now be classified as a ‘muzzle loading firearm”, and will no longer be a prohibited item.
      2. Provision is also made for breech loading canon as collectible by the new Reg 15(d) – “A breech loading canon which must not be less than 50 years old and which is of significant Southern African historical or heritage value under the National Heritage Resources Act”.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Ruger Mini-14 & 10/22 something of the past?

    That regulation does not mean that the firearm in question MUST be older than 50 years. You can still motivate it on the grounds of historical, technological, scientific, heritage, educational, cultural, commemorative, investment, rarity, thematic, artistic.

    Basically, if your collectors assosiation approves it as part of your theme, then it can still be licensed.
    If the firearm is older than 50 years, it's just easier to motivate. If you think it's likely to become a collectors item in future, and it's older than 10 years, then it can still easily be motivated.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Ruger Mini-14 & 10/22 something of the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by mic View Post
    That regulation does not mean that the firearm in question MUST be older than 50 years. You can still motivate it on the grounds of historical, technological, scientific, heritage, educational, cultural, commemorative, investment, rarity, thematic, artistic.

    Basically, if your collectors assosiation approves it as part of your theme, then it can still be licensed.
    If the firearm is older than 50 years, it's just easier to motivate. If you think it's likely to become a collectors item in future, and it's older than 10 years, then it can still easily be motivated.
    I confirmed with my association and Mini-14 and 10/22 are both out of the question.

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