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  1. #1
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    Default Cap and ball and new regulations

    I recently bought a cap and ball revolver and I went through the procedure to apply for a black powder permit. I phoned the head office of the explosives unit in Pretoria today and they informed me that they cannot grant the permit as the revolver needs to be licenced under the new regulations. My problem is as follows: this cap and ball is an original revolver from 1875 and it has no serial number on it which means I cannot apply for a licence and I do not want to apply for a number to be inscribed on the firearm as this will lower the value of the collector's item. I have no idea what to do with regards to this problem??

    I have spoken to Capt Van Heerden at the explosives head office in PTA and he didn't have any advice or steps that I could follow as this problem is outside his juristiction but he did recommend that I go to my local police station and state my case, write a letter to be sent to PTA (not sure to whom exactly) and find out if there are any guidelines or other steps that I may follow. He also recommended I get a lawyer to help me out and prevent the police from turning my world upside down as I am in possession of an illegal firearm according to the new regulations on black powder firearms.

    Can someone please help me with advice or someone I can call to help me out with this? I really don't want to engrave anything on this revolver, I want to keep it in it's original state as is and maintain the value that it has.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cap and ball and new regulations

    Are you a member of a collector's organisation? If so, I suggest you raise the issue internally for advice.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cap and ball and new regulations

    Go and buy a single-shot blackpowder pistol or rifle.

    Then buy powder for that.

    But of course you still need to get a licence for the cap & ball under the re-re-re-re-re-revised law / regs.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Are you a member of a collector's organisation? If so, I suggest you raise the issue internally for advice.
    I am and I have phoned a few guys that I know who might have helped but they didn't have a clue and also phoned one of the lawyers from Legally Armed in Bloem, he still needs to get back to me but he did mention that so far they haven't received one request from any of the collectors who wants to apply for a licence for a cap n ball revolver.

    Also, someone on Whitesmoke mentioned that the provisions haven't come into effect yet and that we're still waiting on SAPS to lay down the transitional provisions. Is there any way I can follow up on this? And if this is true, do I contact the chief inspector of explosives directly and take it up with him or would you guys rather recommend I get a lawyer to do it for me? Cause if the provisions aren't in effect yet then they have no reason to put my permit app on hold or amI missing something somewhere?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cap and ball and new regulations

    Reason? We're talking about the Firearms Control Act. What is this reason you speak of? :-)

  6. #6
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    Well they are withholding my BP permit for the reason that I need to licence my revolver under the new regulations but if the new regulations aren't in effect yet, then why won't they approve my permit?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Cap and ball and new regulations

    because they are as confused as you are and make things up as they go along?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by prepare2win View Post
    because they are as confused as you are and make things up as they go along?
    I realized that today after spending the whole day on the phone with CFR and everyone keeps putting me through to the next guy cause nobody knows what I'm talking about. This is so frustrating, I am just going to buy another black powder firearm so I can get a BP permit and screw them with their new regulations on licencing cap n ball revolvers

  9. #9
    CHASA Neil Jones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cap and ball and new regulations

    Let's try and start at the beginning (if possible).

    Muzzle loaders were de-regulated. Along with this the CFR deregulated "cap and ball" revolvers. There is a paper trail of evidence to this effect - for example dealers were told import permits were not required. Then someone realised that such a device does not conform to the definition of a muzzle loader. Oops. The Chief Inspector of Explosives agreed that in his opinion they are not exempt. So now they have to be brought back as licensable(?) when they should not really have been deregulated.

    So indeed transitional arrangements have to made to sort this out. Along with loose frames and receivers, which are also licensable in terms of the Act but no mechanism exists to deal with them. Many legal minds are occupied in trying to fix this. Let's hope common sense prevails.

    As an intermim measure get your BP competency - that should enable you to purchase powder?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cap and ball and new regulations

    As stated by Neil, the police have now stated that ML revolvers were NEVER deregulated (arguments to the contrary aside) and therefore they won't issue a permit for powder for one if it isn't licensed. The transitional arrangements that are still pending address this, and will allow another slot for a ML revolver to be licensed, and will also allow for transitional arrangements for people to license ones they have. In the meantime, they won't arrest people for posession. But note, they are very determined that they WILL and DO need a regular firearms license.
    You will just have to wait for the transitional arrangements to come into effect, and then license it.
    As for the serial number, there are plans in place to allow for a tag to be attached..say a metal tag on a ring soldered closed. That will satisfy the requirements as this was already addessed by the Collectors Association.
    In the meantime..buy a cheap single shot to allow you to get a permit, and hopefully retire the original or pass it to a collector who won't shoot it.

    DSG

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