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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starstreak View Post
    Why doesn't the dealer do a check during the sales process? What's happening now, from particular dealers, is that the first time a customer finds out there is a problem is from the DFO or CFR and he/she has to rush around trying to fix the problem. By that time, it is difficult to return the FA or the dealer doesn't want it back, so there is a motive.
    The dealer has done everything they can, the CFR is being obstructive, the dealer can dance on their head it won't make the smallest difference, also your DFO is dicking you around, I has a FAL approved by providing the chain of 350's and my DFO accepted that and so did the CFR.

  2. #102

    Default Re: New license app and SAP350 confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    I refuse to provide a copy of my import permit to anyone other than the people who need to clear the firearms with SAPS when a shipment arrives in the country.

    My import permit is confidential and there is no way that I am going to make that info and all the serial numbers public.

    When required I will provide the import permit number so that the DFO can verify what he needs to verify and with that he is able to "track" the origin of the firearms and serial number.
    The original 350 will have the number on it. No need for the actual permit & serials. As long as it exists the CFR can do further checks.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: New license app and SAP350 confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Starstreak View Post
    Many times. As I said, if CFR hasn't processed the 350 (or the dealer failed to do it and is only doing it now), then it would help to provide a copy, especially one with the PI number. You may have to ask the original dealer for this if the FA has been forwarded to another.
    No.

    No 350 is needed for that. The information of the supplying dealer is on the 271.

    The import permit is not needed by the DFO the import permit number is sufficient. If the DFO knows what he is doing he can get the PI number off the SAPS system by using the serial number.

    The DFO does not have to vet the import process or the police the movement of the firearm. The DFO needs to check that the dealer completing the licence app,as selling dealer, is in fact the legal holder of the firearm. Because CFR records are not always up to date , especially iro of recently imported firearms, the DFO cannot see that the firearms is recorded under the name of the selling dealer and therefore he asks for a 350 (a) Stock Received and trust that the information is indeed correct because he accepts it on face value as correct. The DFO cannot do the stock return capturing on the system on behalf of CFR.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: New license app and SAP350 confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Starstreak View Post
    The original 350 will have the number on it. No need for the actual permit & serials. As long as it exists the CFR can do further checks.
    My post #56 is the last reply I will give on this thread - give it a rest.

  5. #105

    Default Re: New license app and SAP350 confusion

    Import permits have nothing to do with the 271.
    That is a separate application that the dealer had already done. The fact that the firearm is here and in their stock means that the process was finalized regarding the approval of the import application and the physical import of the firearms.
    the dealers then duly submit their 350 of the firearms imported.
    Now the import section is supposed to " physically" import the firearms on the system, from State Department 29 to the dealers code. If they don't do this, how is the dealer to blame?
    The dealers have resorted to court action on the behalf of their clients, surely that proves that they are not ignoring the customers plight?
    They can't speak to people or see somebody at CFR, as all avenues have been closed since last year.
    I phoned my section last week just to have them check an ID and status while I was away on other duties. No one even bothered to get back to me with an answer, so I can imagine how the dealers and public are struggling. This is due to the knock on effect of the damage that was done by the rumors published in the media, and the ordinary members who did their jobs ,but was part of the fall out can't be blamed. No one can say how long this will continue, but the reality is that many saw how people were treated and called corrupt while only ever trying to push service delivery. The way certain people turned on each other is sickening and the best recourse is to go in, do your what is on your job description, don't talk to anybody and go home.
    Trying to do what is not part of your job description will bring trouble and is not worth the end result.
    It sounds callous, but until anybody has been there and seen what was going on since last year, it's difficult to believe and understand.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: New license app and SAP350 confusion

    So basically as a law abiding, tax paying citizen I have no option but to hurry up and wait?

  7. #107
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    Default Re: New license app and SAP350 confusion

    I feel for you guys Nortier. I often deal with Gov departments on behalf of clients and each time I find a "diamond" who yearns to assist the public in improving service delivery they soon find themselves either "cut down at the knees" (as their improved delivery makes others look bad) or quit and move on as they just can't stand to operate in a climate where improvement is punished. :(

  8. #108
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    Default Re: New license app and SAP350 confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by nortierd View Post
    Import permits have nothing to do with the 271.
    That is a separate application that the dealer had already done. The fact that the firearm is here and in their stock means that the process was finalized regarding the approval of the import application and the physical import of the firearms.
    the dealers then duly submit their 350 of the firearms imported.
    Now the import section is supposed to " physically" import the firearms on the system, from State Department 29 to the dealers code. If they don't do this, how is the dealer to blame?
    The dealers have resorted to court action on the behalf of their clients, surely that proves that they are not ignoring the customers plight?
    They can't speak to people or see somebody at CFR, as all avenues have been closed since last year.
    I phoned my section last week just to have them check an ID and status while I was away on other duties. No one even bothered to get back to me with an answer, so I can imagine how the dealers and public are struggling. This is due to the knock on effect of the damage that was done by the rumors published in the media, and the ordinary members who did their jobs ,but was part of the fall out can't be blamed. No one can say how long this will continue, but the reality is that many saw how people were treated and called corrupt while only ever trying to push service delivery. The way certain people turned on each other is sickening and the best recourse is to go in, do your what is on your job description, don't talk to anybody and go home.
    Trying to do what is not part of your job description will bring trouble and is not worth the end result.
    It sounds callous, but until anybody has been there and seen what was going on since last year, it's difficult to believe and understand.
    Thank you sir.

    I have tried to explain that nothing else can be done by a dealer or should be needed from the standard practice, as it is currently, for a DFO to accept a licence app. Some people seem to not understand what I am saying.

    I do find that some DFOs are obstructive by requiring additional information that is not always needed for them to accept an application.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by nortierd View Post
    Import permits have nothing to do with the 271.
    That is a separate application that the dealer had already done. The fact that the firearm is here and in their stock means that the process was finalized regarding the approval of the import application and the physical import of the firearms.
    the dealers then duly submit their 350 of the firearms imported.
    Now the import section is supposed to " physically" import the firearms on the system, from State Department 29 to the dealers code. If they don't do this, how is the dealer to blame?
    The dealers have resorted to court action on the behalf of their clients, surely that proves that they are not ignoring the customers plight?
    They can't speak to people or see somebody at CFR, as all avenues have been closed since last year.
    I phoned my section last week just to have them check an ID and status while I was away on other duties. No one even bothered to get back to me with an answer, so I can imagine how the dealers and public are struggling. This is due to the knock on effect of the damage that was done by the rumors published in the media, and the ordinary members who did their jobs ,but was part of the fall out can't be blamed. No one can say how long this will continue, but the reality is that many saw how people were treated and called corrupt while only ever trying to push service delivery. The way certain people turned on each other is sickening and the best recourse is to go in, do your what is on your job description, don't talk to anybody and go home.
    Trying to do what is not part of your job description will bring trouble and is not worth the end result.
    It sounds callous, but until anybody has been there and seen what was going on since last year, it's difficult to believe and understand.
    Thank you Nortier!

    There you have it boys and girls, and that is all there is to say about that.
    [b]Be ready for anything, and if his head is not at least two meters away from the body, do not 'assume' he is dead and out of the fight.[/b] [I]- Ikor[/I]

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    I do find that some DFOs are obstructive by requiring additional information that is not always needed for them to accept an application.
    Even worse, I find that DFO's badmouth dealers when dealing with applicants, while they KNOW it is not the dealer's fault.

    I had a very irate client on the phone the other day because the DFO told him how it was the dealer's fault that the firearm is still showing on 'Government 29' (an NEA nogal) and how he should go tell the dealer to do their job (this while he had a signed SAPS 350 in his hand).

    I then spoke directly to the DFO (the client was in her office) and asked her whose fault it was that the firearm was not shown as on our name. "CFR's fault" she admits to me.

    "So why do you tell our clients that it is our fault then?" I asked.

    "Because then you can exert pressure on CFR because you have more contacts there than I" she answered.

    Sure. You bloody-well work for SAPS but we have more contacts there? BS!

    Thanks a lot for telling all our clients that we are the supposed bad guys in this while you know that is not the case.

    [b]Be ready for anything, and if his head is not at least two meters away from the body, do not 'assume' he is dead and out of the fight.[/b] [I]- Ikor[/I]

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