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Thread: Found on News24

  1. #1
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    Default Found on News24

    Hi Guys and Girls,

    Having a day off today and found this on News24, I thought it deserved an airing on Gunsite, let me have your thoughts.

    http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Secur...ights-20120917 - Crimefreeza

    Gun control has a vast organisation of many willing people who all work for the eradication of your rights and removing your guns from you. This is controlled by a very few individual at country level.

    Firearm owners have no organisation that protects the right to firearm ownership as its only mandate.

    While it is true that all have a duty to ensure the continued ability of members to be and remain firearm owners, few organisations pay this much attention. There is no control, coordination or cooperation at a higher level and each organisation does its own thing if and when they want.

    None of these organisations is equipped to defend the rights every citizen should enjoy to firearm ownership. They all are primarily sporting, sales or services based organisations.

    Some might even claim an organisations like SAGA protects this right but that would not be factual or true. SAGA is a firearm safety organisation simply promoting the safe handling and use of firearms although the original intention of SAGA was a protective organisation. SAGA has failed to live up to that expectation and changed its mandate.

    All organisations follow the same pattern of defending their interest, be it sales, service or control of sport and that is to employ lawyers and challenge legislation or enactment in court only. Once the legislation has passed it is accepted, promoted and compliance by members demanded by theses organisations.

    In a few cases legislation has been challenged. For the few of those successful challenges, legislation is seldom removed, it is either modified or changed to remove the reason for the loss but continues to serve its restrictive function.

    No attempt is made by any organisation to protect individuals who will be impacted by any law. Thus those deprived of the right or denied the right to ownership by any means are simply abandoned and forgotten and left to their own solutions. It is hardly the way to win friends and encourage ownership and there is no possible way in which such abandonment can be construed as protecting the right to firearm ownership.

    No success has ever been obtained in getting firearm organisations to even cooperate with each other as all are independent and have other motivations and goals that are the only priority and concern. These organisations would rather fight with each other than cooperate.

    Gun control has a free hand in public education of citizens to reject and oppose firearm ownership. Any opposition or counter by those who would enjoy the rights to freedom and defence of self is ill advised by ill-equipped, untrained mostly volunteers who have no training or experience in influencing public opinion. Their efforts are uncoordinated, without qualified leadership, advice or good example and seldom if ever succeed in gaining public support.

    Yet none of that has to be true. Firearm owners could have the organisation they deserve and need to succeed in stemming the tide of gun control. There is absolutely no reason such an organisation does not exist except themselves. An organisation that ensure the safety of all citizens, that ensures their rights are not infringed. That ensures public education is its primary function and mandate in order to prevent gun control from ever gaining a single foot hold to removal of those precious rights. Prevention is always better than cure and will always be needed.
    Last edited by Craig; 06-10-2012 at 11:36. Reason: Link to source

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    Default Re: Found on News24

    Gunsite rules require that you post the link to any copyright material you post. Please do so immediately.

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    Default Re: Found on News24

    Crimefree again... IIRC he was banned from Gunsite a while ago. He talks about "standing together", but whenever anybody disagrees with him even slightly he is quick to attack and throw insults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PesVis View Post
    Crimefree again... IIRC he was banned from Gunsite a while ago. He talks about "standing together", but whenever anybody disagrees with him even slightly he is quick to attack and throw insults.
    Yup he got banhammered.

    I still mantain he did the cause more damage than good.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Found on News24

    Dont you think its about time we all stop the BS now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baboon Shooter View Post
    Having a day off today and found this on News24,
    This is the person who doesn't have an issues using using the same platform he regularly slated, to sell his firearms.

    A bit strange how he over the last couple of years, was so quick to point fingers and attack as this "article" eloquently illustrates, but he literary couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, in terms of his attempt at a firearms organisation.

    Nowhere have I ever seen an attempt by him to reconcile and unify the firearms community , yet he pushes out article after article of drivel, attacking all.

    He has on more than a number of occasions, even under the aliases he thought we wernt aware off, been allowed back to Gunsite in a spirit of reconciliation. He was unfortunately never able to maintain any sort of decorum.

    Crimefree has done nothing , but try and cause dissent and division.

    Sorry Dave , but thats how it is.
    "Guns are just tools, the way they're used reflects the society they're apart of, if you don't like guns, blame it on society" ~Chris Kyle

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankH View Post
    This is the person who doesn't have an issues using using the same platform he regularly slated, to sell his firearms.
    +1

    Through his proxies.

    'I had some time today' sounds just like the 'this crossed my desk today' of old.
    [b]Be ready for anything, and if his head is not at least two meters away from the body, do not 'assume' he is dead and out of the fight.[/b] [I]- Ikor[/I]

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    Default Re: Found on News24

    Thanks BigT for adding the link, I was asking for comment on the content not the author, I found it to be both interesting and true. I have not been around long enough to know all of the history on the site, please excuse that. The thought of one umbrella group focusing on the preservation of gun ownership and individual rights was very appealing to me, I wondered how many Gunsite users shared this thought. Sorry if I upset anyone, that was exactly why I did not include the link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baboon Shooter View Post
    I have not been around long enough to know all of the history on the site, please excuse that.
    That's what you said last year when these articles 'crossed your desk', and IIRC we pointed you in the right direction for said history then already.
    [b]Be ready for anything, and if his head is not at least two meters away from the body, do not 'assume' he is dead and out of the fight.[/b] [I]- Ikor[/I]

  9. #9

    Default Re: Found on News24

    Quote Originally Posted by Baboon Shooter View Post
    The thought of one umbrella group focusing on the preservation of gun ownership and individual rights was very appealing to me, I wondered how many Gunsite users shared this thought.
    That is exactly what we would like to see. There is a private section of the forum where we loaded and forwarded passwords to the various organisations who were attending the meetings with Jenni Irish. Unfortunately it is no longer used.

    So would we support one umbrella organisation? Yes 100% as I'm sure the majority of members would. Unfortunately you have to accept the SA reality that we just cant seem to stand together no matter the situation or issue.

    Although the content may to some degree be true, Crimefree certainly has not helped the situation in any way, so it doest really matter what he says, as he continues to be divisive and condescending.

    He views anyone prepared to go through the current licencing system as absolute traitors , more specifically the terminology he uses is Collaborates , we on the other hand have always promoted the idea of putting as many guns in the hands of South Africans as possible. The firearms industry is certainly once more on an upward trend. CF loves to tell us how many gun shops there were in days gone by. Its history , get over it and have a plan working forward.

    CF has unfortunately been an undermining factor in a number of organisations ( Dave as a member of his closed forum , you would know how he despised GS and was always looking for a way in. What was his name for GS members and Mods on his forum? Useful idiots)

    Its always easy to criticise, which all his articles do. He never offers a workable solution and certainly I do not take him seriously at all.
    "Guns are just tools, the way they're used reflects the society they're apart of, if you don't like guns, blame it on society" ~Chris Kyle

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Found on News24

    Thanks for your response Frank but you have gone back to the person not the idea.
    SALGO has gone, Peter is a mess at the moment, his wife Jill, died a short while ago, he is in a hole that he cannot get out of. He is selling all of his firearms and has no interest any longer.
    That said there is nothing wrong with his idea, forget it came from the direction it did. All sport shooters, hunters, clay shooters in fact every gun owner in SA have something in common, we are all under threat of losing our right to own and use fierarms, the anti gun crowd, internationally, are gaining ground and 'we' the guys with the most to lose are not keeping up. We have got to find a way of uniting all firearm owners in one common cause or eventually we will lose, the way SAGA was intended, I am not pointing any fingers at anyone but at the same time pointing at everyone, myself included. Dick pointed out that SA Hunt missed(?) their golden opportunity in another post on the forum, he is right but wrong at the same time, SA Hunt is a hunting org not a rights protection group, they protect their members interests and to expect them to be 'the NRA' of SA is wrong, the same goes for all of the other special interest groups it's not their job or pursuit. I am a member of SA Hunt and Collectors and have been for many years before the new FCA, I don't look to them for protection but for their expertise in their chosen field. Yes I think that some have been feathering their own nests and capitalizing on the present situation, I cannot blame them for that, can you? The clubs have benefited by the extra members making much more possible, how can we begrudge them for their ingenuity. I will not use the 'C' word to describe them.

    We do need another special interest group, to preserve the rights of all 'gun owners', we just need the right person to gather some interest and the right guys to drive it. Gareth Cliff wrote an article a few years ago in 'The Chronicles of Cliff' that hit the nail on the head, I still have it somewhere I'll look for it and post it. Any ideas from your side?

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