Most SAP Reservists not allowed to carry FireArms Until further notice

**Just Plain Phil** · 07-07-2009, 22:23

Dudes, this is some serious s h 1 t, and no I haven't been smoking any origanum or Sniffing Bokkies Socks.

I've just had a Friend for super, and no her name wasn't Clarice.

Any Ho, He has something to do with the SAP Reservists ( no names will be mentioned to protect the guilty)

And was at a meeting this evening 07/07/09 in Cape Town.
The words mentioned at the meeting was something like this.

No Reservist my be issued with, allowed to carry a FireArm, unless they have Successfully completed the "Street Survival Course" ( what ever that is)
There is 9000 Reservists in the Western Cape and 53000 Country wide.

Most of the Reservists in the Cape 99% have not done this course.
Their private competency certificates are not considered to be valid training for the work at hand

Now I know that there are a few of you Guys that are Reservists and this will affect you hence the Post.
This is all HearSay, Please confirm this for yourself.

I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that he was only Joking with Me.

Should he be correct .......................

**JoeTalin** · 07-07-2009, 23:04

sounds a bit fishy...

**JPS** · 08-07-2009, 00:19

Have it on good authority that this will be the case in Guateng as well.

**white_ræbbit** · 08-07-2009, 07:03

That's just GREAT... see I'm going to catch up on some CSC hours... md217

**SWATG** · 08-07-2009, 07:22

Don't worry the "Street Survival Course" is the SAPS conjured dream of "cutting" edge training, if you know anything about training you will have a good chuckle on this one, I am not shooting down their efforts, more training is good, but I have seen this course in action, and had many officers that came to me after completion of this course, and basically this will ingrain more bad habits and very unsound tactics, but fortunately there is movement on their training although it is backwards! This will also be used by the minister for PR work whereby they will state to the media that SAPS in preparation for the world cup are undergoing training that is up there with the best, this will come from a department that has got no clue on weapons and tactics, believe me I had the pleasure of having some of the ministry on the range, and some of you that attended one of my course would have seen them in "action" this makes me sick to the core, and like Ikor says, what is seen can't be unseen!

**ikor** · 08-07-2009, 09:33

My only vague understanding of this is / was that while it will be required eventually for all full time and reserve SAPS officers, after the completion of which it will also be a required 'block' once every 5 years thereafter, it was never intended to be completed by all reservests before 2010...people do, however, change their minds...especially people who have NO idea about the task they are asking thousands upon thosands to accomplish.

**Just Plain Phil** · 08-07-2009, 10:06

I heard that it has something to do with the the FCA

**Armed Preacher** · 08-07-2009, 13:36

Does this apply to reservists only or to all SAPS members?

The reason I ask is that I attended a SAPS shoot a while back and not one of the 80 or so, SAPS members shot well enough on their standards to be 'allowed' onto the street survival range. One member had a grand total of 8 holes in her A4 page after 40 rounds had been fired in her own time, at distances not exceeding 7m, I fortunately didn't get to see her total after the complete 75 rounds.
The rag-tag bunch of civvies (12 in total) all completed the standards well enough to go onto the street survival range and pass that - the most difficult part is getting over the 2m wall with a BP vest on then carrying your 75Kg 'maatjie' in your arms for the distance - the shooting is relatively straight forward except for the daft idea they have on counting your rounds in order to manage a 'speed reload' at a particular point. I have yet to meet a person who has counted the number of rounds they have fired in a gunfight so this part of the SAPS training is wasted time and effort.

**SSP** · 08-07-2009, 14:10

Originally Posted by Armed Preacher

the shooting is relatively straight forward except for the daft idea they have on counting your rounds in order to manage a 'speed reload' at a particular point. I have yet to meet a person who has counted the number of rounds they have fired in a gunfight so this part of the SAPS training is wasted time and effort.

This is called "IPSC disease".

**wormyzn** · 08-07-2009, 14:57

here we go just recieved in mail.

Title: Mixed messages from Government regarding SAPS Reservists
Item Text:
iWitness reporter comments on the new firearms control act - Steve Martin/iWitness | Yesterday

Tonight, the SAPS lack of effective planning and resourcing in the Western Cape effectively shot themselves in the foot – disarming up to 30% of their on the ground capacity. Much has been made in the media of late regarding the implementation of the new firearms control act (FCA) what hasn’t been clarified – although often touched on – is the position this places the SAPS in in terms of having the largest volume of arms bearing officers second possibly to the SANDF. The new FCA requires that all persons carrying a firearm have completed and passed a competency test including examinations to a SAQA (South African Qualifications Authority) approved standard. This includes the SAPS. Effectively, this means that during the past 4 years, the SAPS has had the opportunity to ensure that its manpower component have all passed the appropriate testing so that individual officers are carrying firearms within the scope of the law. Today saw a mass disarming of the reservist component of SAPS in the Western Cape. All reservists were told to stop their duties and hand in the firearms they had booked out as they had not completed the required testing – despite in most cases this testing (known as a Street Survival Course) not having been made available to them. Reservists (particularly over weekends) comprise up to 30% of the man hours of SAPS in the Western Cape. These are trained volunteers who are in two categories – those who provide their time and dedication free of charge and those who are “called up” and provide 16 hours free service followed by up to 20 shifts for which they are paid a ridiculous wage of approximately R2500 a month (constables’ wages). During the course of today, station commissioners notified reservists when booking on for duty or simply called them in off the road and disarmed them apologizing profusely and watched in some cases up to a third of their visible policing force book their weapons in and head home. A clear order stands within SAPS that no member may work out on the road in uniform without a firearm – there would therefore be no point in them all cluttering up the charge offices. It remains to be seen how this idiotic turn of events will be unravelled or how it will be righted from the current situation. Permanent Police Officers who have also not completed the Street Survival Course and Competency exam were being issued “temporary weapons permits valid for 14 days” en-masse to ensure that they comply with the new FCA until such time as they can attend the courses. In the Western Cape, there are insufficient instructors for the Street Survival and competency program to suddenly churn out the masses of members that will need certification immediately. As usual nobody seemed to know who issued the instruction although it’s rumoured to have come from Provincial Commissioner Mzwandile Petros personally. The normal blaming-game is expected to play out over the next week as some form of interim measure and the usual “it was a misunderstanding…” is offered to those whose services have effectively been rejected. As I type this, I can hear the sirens outside and wonder to myself how many calls will go unanswered tonight, how many dangerous criminals will slip through the net because of a direct lack of manpower?

Exactly how many will of course be an unknown factor, but what I do know is that the Western Cape SAPS have effectively (yet again) slapped dedicated and hard working volunteers in the face through their inefficient administration. This is the same administration that some 4 months ago made province wide calls and ran public advertisements calling for new reservists to join up and serve their communities – then after receiving literally hundreds of applications (if not thousands) turned them away saying that there was no capacity available to train them. Something is drastically malfunctioning in the wheels of the SAPS in our province and the cost is being borne by the humble citizen sitting watching television or eating dinner right now, blissfully unaware that the thin blue line keeping crime at bay is becoming weaker and weaker on a daily basis… I cannot possibly wait to see the excuses they will find to justify a monumental mistake like this or the PR they will roll out in an attempt to gloss over the severity of it. All I know is that when I head to bed, I’ll keep the doors locked and will rely on myself to protect my family – because the thin blue line is just too weak for me to depend on tonight.

Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa wants to hire over-age reservists instead of recruiting "useless people who end up being criminals".

Currently, the SAPS's legal recruitment age is 18, but recruits should be younger than 30. But Mthethwa said this excluded some hard-working police reservists who are over the age limit or even 40, who could do a better job. "Reservists have been arresting people and helping the government, but they have not been prioritised when recruitment is made. We sometimes recruit useless people as police (who) sometimes end up as criminals," he said. He wants the force to grow to 204 000 members by 2012. For the July intake, said Mthethwa, 1 100 reservists would be trained to join the SAPS. "People who will be taken on board (are those) who have shown themselves and are known to the community (to be) committed to the fight against crime. If we need to look into the prerequisites for the police, we will do that. For instance, some of them have been arresting dangerous criminals and running police stations. You have people who are pillars in the police, and these people do everything, but the only thing they don't have is matric," he said. The Further Education and Training colleges would be on hand to assist in boosting the education of the reservists. "They should not lose an opportunity because of (lack of) matric. In the police there are many people that don't have matric... they have Standard 6 or a Junior Certificate but some of them are the best thing that ever happened to South Africa," he said. There were concerns about five years ago about the police's literacy level, with some reportedly struggling to take basic statements. There were 51 000 reservists throughout the country, and of these, about 20 000 would eventually join the SAPS, said Mthethwa. o This article was originally published on page 1 of Pretoria News on July 06, 2009
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