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  1. #21

    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertie1 View Post
    Then there is the Military and Police who sell and "misplace" firearms. The minority are stolen from licensed firearm owners.
    Dear Bertie,

    You might be wrong about that. From a March 2008 Institute for Security Studies report

    Table 3: Civilian firearms reported lost/stolen (1994/95-2006/2007)
    and recovered or confiscated (1994/95-2004/2005)


    Year Number of firearms lost/stolen and Number of recovered firearms
    1994/95 14,158 6,727
    1995/96 15,045 9,834
    1996/97 18,619 11,185
    1997/98 29,009 10,750
    1998/99 22,563 13,712
    1999/00 22,740 14,272
    2000/01 21,996 15,421
    2001/02 21,892 19,756
    2002/03 21,641 21,607
    2003/04 20,427 30,208
    2004/05 15,837 23,813
    2005/06 14,842 12,351
    2006/07 14,682 13,120
    Source: SAPS Annual Reports (http://www.saps.gov.za)
    Table 5: SAPS firearms losses, April to May 2001/02 to 2006/0721
    Year Stolen/RobberyLost/misplaced
    Total
    2001/02 131 368 444 943
    2002/03 239 487 195 921
    2003/04 219 412 304 935
    2004/05 179 289 267 735
    2005/06 n/a n/a n/a 2,297
    2006/07 n/a n/a n/a 3,856
    Source: Democratic Alliance




  2. #22
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    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Dear Bertie,

    You might be wrong about that. From a March 2008 Institute for Security Studies report
    Has the ongoing consensus by GOSA and SAGA not been that more firearms unaccounted for by "goverment" organisations than private individuals? If I am wrong, cannot be by much anyway.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    ask them for sources for their "drivers" stats. "if you cant prove it... stfu"

  4. #24
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    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Dear Bertie,

    You might be wrong about that. From a March 2008 Institute for Security Studies report

    I really doubt that any SAPS stats on guns are accurate - they cannot even effectively manage the SAPS350 returns they get regularly from all dealers.

    I would be more inclined to believe prosecution stats for lost firearms.
    Speed is important, but not at the sacrifice of accuracy, but being accurate needs to be fast enough.
    Jeff Gonzales - Trident Concepts


    THE BITTERNESS OF POOR QUALITY REMAINS LONG AFTER THE SWEETNESS OF LOW PRICE IS FORGOTTEN.

    "Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law breaker, it breeds contempt for the law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."
    Louis D Brandeis

  5. #25
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    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    SAPS gets prosecuted for lost firearms??

  6. #26
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    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    The article should be credited to Marko Kloos circa 2007 ( http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.co...-civilization/ ). The USMC Major seems to be a fictional character of the Internet.

  7. #27

    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    Its funny how they won't quote fbi stats

  8. #28
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    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Dear Bertie,

    You might be wrong about that. From a March 2008 Institute for Security Studies report
    Ah yes, the same Institute for Security Studies that is funded by our good friend George Soros, and which provides gainful employment to Adele kirsten and others of her ilk.

    Personally I put a LOT of store by their research - almost as much as I trust the Medical Research Councils' figures - also funded by Georgie Porgie.
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

  9. #29

    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Ah yes, the same Institute for Security Studies that is funded by our good friend George Soros, and which provides gainful employment to Adele kirsten and others of her ilk.

    Personally I put a LOT of store by their research - almost as much as I trust the Medical Research Councils' figures - also funded by Georgie Porgie.
    Paul, you'll see the one lot of data is official SAPS data and the other from the DA. How accurate? Dunno but I've not seen any other data. Where is the data WE are relying on in making the claims?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: The Gun is Civilization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.
    By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)
    Not in Africa. Here we have 3 ways. Bribes, Force and (seldom used) Reason.

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