SAGA

[Paul]

Been there. Done that. Have the tattoo. Tone the condescension down a notch and you may actually find a receptive audience.

Is it soooo bad that paul and co have violently shaken us from our slumber and we feel drained and groggy?

Yes, in fact it is. It's accepted in polite society that one's cock should remain hidden at all times until one is requested to haul it out by the other party(ies). Running around with your pants open screams of social ineptitude and naivety. It's boorish and just bad form, chap. Bad form indeed.

Ps: Revolvers dont do it for me...

Clearly. Young bull / old bull emilio... young bull / old bull. Lemme guess, you're a Glock man?

Hey, boet, slowly with the generalisations and assumptions. Some of us ARE old bulls, and we don't get tattoos for PerSec reasons, if you don't know why I'm not going to explain it to you ;)

BTW, I'm a Colt, S&W, and Ruger man ;-{>} My wife, however, is a Glock girl... what does that mean?

Anyone else going to the Donkerhoek range on Sunday?

[deonh]

Hey, boet, slowly with the generalisations and assumptions.

I will if you will?  ;)

BTW, I'm a Colt, S&W, and Ruger man ;-{>} My wife, however, is a Glock girl... what does that mean?

That you have deep psychological scars and latent parental issues stemming back to a previous childhood experience.  My consulting hours are weekdays 8 - 4.  Call me...

Anyone else going to the Donkerhoek range on Sunday?

No, but I'm hitting KSC on the morrow with some of the GS good ole' boys for some guns, beer and banjo tuning!  Hee haw!  fighting0035 (cue theme from "Deliverance).

[flysouth]

Free speech can be a bitch, can't it!

“Free speech is intended to protect the controversial and even outrageous word; and not just comforting platitudes too mundane to need protection.” - Colin Powell (Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (1989-93) and past US Secretary of State.

[SSP]

I dont find it draining? I have the stamina to deal with it... I guess some of us are more virile than others heeheehee hpy194

Young bull / old bull emilio, check it up. You may have the stamina but I have the wisdom to know when to let it slide and appreciate the journey more than the destination fighting0002

It seems as if (from my perspective) that Paul@Adventures and CF are giving you all a mental workout hehe...

Refer to previous "mental masturbation" note...

;D ... You just need to acclimatize to the "activism" mindset.... sort of like getting fit at the gym ... just with your mind... Then you wont find it so (mentally) draining.

Been there. Done that. Have the tattoo. Tone the condescension down a notch and you may actually find a receptive audience.

Bottom line that CF and co are making is this : There will come a time when you wont have any Glocks to talk about on gunsite.

Emilio, we know this. You seem to be under the impression that this "revelation" is novel to GS members, it ain't brother. We (excuse me for speaking on behalf of some of the old toppies) probably know this more than you and paul and co. given the collective wisdom on GS. We've fought, have fought and are fighting the battle but without getting all Julius Malema about it. But to me, GS was (is?) a Shangri La where I could retreat for some R&R and talk gun shit with blokes that know more about guns than I do. Serious gun shit, but GUN shit is GOOD shit. Fukc politics. Leave that for whinge-mags like Magnum and the various acronymns I pay money to.

Is it soooo bad that paul and co have violently shaken us from our slumber and we feel drained and groggy?

Yes, in fact it is. It's accepted in polite society that one's cock should remain hidden at all times until one is requested to haul it out by the other party(ies). Running around with your pants open screams of social ineptitude and naivety. It's boorish and just bad form, chap. Bad form indeed.

Ps: Revolvers dont do it for me...

Clearly. Young bull / old bull emilio... young bull / old bull. Lemme guess, you're a Glock man?

Good post.

[Emilio]

Been there. Done that. Have the tattoo. Tone the condescension down a notch and you may actually find a receptive audience.

So much for the humour "over a beer" advocated here on gun site in recent threads... hpy180

Yes, in fact it is. It's accepted in polite society that one's cock should remain hidden at all times until one is requested to haul it out by the other party(ies). Running around with your pants open screams of social ineptitude and naivety. It's boorish and just bad form, chap. Bad form indeed.

If the activists are given their own chookie in the corner, with built-in soap boxes, why the anger? The "flashers" are in their own room, far away from your "dinner party" friends on gunsite. I suppose its cultural to be polite like you are. I just keep having an image of people polishing Rugersand Blackhawks while the violen players are playing as the Titanic is sinking. Noble? Yes... But even a rat like me has survival instincts and sense to notice the flooding waters.

However, I have agreed to restricting my talking about guns in the same vein as you to other parts of gun site, but in Speakers corner we should ALL be allowed to vent and Malemamize. There is a market for this kind of thing here. I agree that it should stay in one corner. Paul and co only need to agree to leaving their politics here. Its a good compromise.

Clearly. Young bull / old bull emilio... young bull / old bull. Lemme guess, you're a Glock man?

No, I am a anti-gun control man... But i will settle for tupperware guns in the 40 calibre... ;D How much are glocks going for these days?

[Crimefree]

I saw mention of the NRA. Many will not like what is fact but the NRA have made little difference to the situation in the USA and gun control has had almost a free hand to indoctrinate the citizens to support gun laws. Currently 49% or USA citizens support stricter gun laws only 12% support less. That is down from the 60% support of the late 1990's due to nothing the NRA has done. Read the Gallup survey reports if you have any doubts. When any organisation does not know that without public support firearm ownership cannot survive they are ineffective. Promoting guns is as useless as doing nothing. Only public safety is of any concern to the public.

SAGA is only as good as the members. That said SAGA needs to learn a lot about PR and finding out what members want and need instead of telling them what they think is best. The arrogant attitude of SAGA is what drove me to say I don't pay money to be insulted which a SAGA official did and I did not renew. It's history and I forgive.

The constant haemorrhage of members when SAGA should have been growing stronger is testament to doing it wrong. That I believe may have changed recently as there is signs of life and a willingness to listen instead of arrogant defence. A welcome change indeed and something we should give both credit for and an opportunity for SAGA to prove itself a worthy representative of firearm owners. Leadership is from the front and you can't sacrifice members and potential members to the FCA. Who wants to be a member of such an organisation?

We all make mistakes, it's how you recover that counts. Read the SAGA submission - link on their home page. You will be surprised and amazed. Who would have thought that possible for SAGA a year ago? But we must not forget to play our part and help by keeping organisations informed of what we want and will not put up with.

Anyone not think comments like this helped make those changes. The lesson is communicate and tell organisations why you are unhappy. The organisation may ignore one or two but there is a number that will break the camels back. The same is true for any organisation including government.

To: SAGA Office <saga@iafrica.com>
Subject: CFR submission request
Date sent: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 17:30:36 +0200

Dear SAGA

How is SAGA going to be able to do this? If that is not the intention then had SAGA not better inform members and firearm owners what it is doing in their name. SAGA simply cannot make the claim it represents anyone when it has made no effort to obtain members and those it claims to represent input on what it intends to do.

What the SAPS expect in 3 working days, no 2 now or even with some revised date of 9 more days.

There is no information the SAPS have provided on their capability of how many forms they can process and in what time. All they have ever said is we can do it, we are ready and there are no backlogs which is patently wrong.

There is no way that additional manpower will be assigned or more money thrown at the FCA. Nor does anyone know how much it currently costs or how many police are doing the work of gun control. This vacuum of information includes the SAPS and SAGA because they have not provided the answers needed to any of these questions.

Without a full audit it makes setting up a system, any system impossible.

Nor will a full audit show the impact the FCA has had on crime in subtracting money, resources and time from investigative services and public responsibility from the SAPS. So an impact study is also needed.

Then we have the crux of the matter the validity of this intervention which has not yet been proven by the SAPS to be of any use to public safety as claimed.

No legislation or action of the SAPS should be based on a belief that deprives people of the opportunity to protect themselves. Nor should this be made difficult or expensive as a means to dissuade what may be life saving. If any requirement cannot be shown to have validity is is
capricious.

The courts have without exception in many court cases castigated the SAPS on the service delivery and the manner in which the FCA has been implemented. That includes the lack of advertising, education and drafting of guidelines for compensation. Unconstitutional was one such comment. Since this is expected to be commented, on how many organisations have transcripts of those court cases? Which organisation has made public those transcripts?

Many hundreds of thousand in fact close to one million have been deprived unjustly of their firearm and any compensation as provided for in the Act. What response from the SAPS is necessary to correct that deficiency of the SAPS. Demanding they do pay will not correct the problem with the SAPS.

It is the requirements of the Act and ability of the SAPS to carry out those requirements that is in question. This cannot be a lack of manpower unless it can be shown that the manpower assigned is doing as well or more than what are considered core duties of the SAPS.