Spying far worse in South Africa than the US

**FrankH** · 14-06-2013, 07:33

In terms of both *legislation and practical reality, South Africans have faced far closer scrutiny of their private communication than US citizens.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-06-14-0...n-south-africa

**Fransisco** · 14-06-2013, 07:53

Can't say that it's all that surprising really, just sad. Be careful what you say then I suppose...

**malcolmm** · 14-06-2013, 08:20

For those who think the agencies in SA are fast asleep, think again. They do indeed do alot of collection, however, how effective they are in putting the intel to good use is another topic of discussion.

**Paul** · 14-06-2013, 09:13

Originally Posted by malcolmm

For those who think the agencies in SA are fast asleep, think again. They do indeed do alot of collection, however, how effective they are in putting the intel to good use is another topic of discussion.

My mates over at Protea Coin seem to have their work cut out culling all the cash in transit robbers from the Crime Intelligence and Crimes Against the State herd.

**ady** · 14-06-2013, 09:28

"total disregard by our intelligence services for democratic principles".

This is what happens when you give people too much power.

**curious george** · 14-06-2013, 09:30

But chasing shadows and creating "threats" must be hard work and time consuming Paul, cant waste time on pesky cash in transit robbers,they are not a threat to the state...

**Paul** · 14-06-2013, 09:55

Originally Posted by curious george

But chasing shadows and creating "threats" must be hard work and time consuming Paul, cant waste time on pesky cash in transit robbers,they are not a threat to the state...

I don't think you understand...

The Crime Intelligence and CATS cops ARE the CIT robbers!

**curious george** · 14-06-2013, 10:04

Originally Posted by Paul

I don't think you understand...

The Crime Intelligence and CATS cops ARE the CIT robbers!

Haha,touche,I keep forgetting where we live...

**malcolmm** · 14-06-2013, 10:22

Originally Posted by Paul

My mates over at Protea Coin seem to have their work cut out culling all the cash in transit robbers from the Crime Intelligence and Crimes Against the State herd.

How else are they suppose to bankroll their lifestyles? We're in the wrong business, my friend. ;-)

**Paul** · 14-06-2013, 10:27

Originally Posted by curious george

Haha,touche,I keep forgetting where we live...

I'm not kidding...

En so fight ons nogsteeds die transito rowers, maar hierdie een gaan n lang spooropvolg wees.

Captain KGB - witnesses in peril
GRAEME HOSKEN | 14 June, 2013 02:29

Crime intelligence officer Captain Morris Tshabalala tries to avoid photographers after appearing in the Sasolburg Magistrate's Court in connection with a cash-in-transit heist. His co-accused Sipho Motsamayi and Mapotswe Moloi (brown jacket) wait to get into the police van
Image by: MOELETSI MABE

Several civilians linking top spy cops to cash-in-transit heists had to be whisked into witness protection yesterday after their names were released and a plot around an intricate prison escape was revealed in court.

In a day of high drama at the Sasolburg Magistrate's Court, magistrate Sandra Sujanani ruled that statements taken from six men linking Captain Morris "KGB" Tshabalala and five others to a multimillion-rand cash-in-transit heist be given to their defence team.

Police officers then had to scramble to enter three witnesses into protection programmes because of fears for their safety .

Tshabalala is accused of orchestrating a February cash-in-transit heist in Sasolburg , in which gunmen stole R3-million from a Protea Coin cash van.

Tshabalala, a covert intelligence agent involved in top-secret investigations into threats against the state and President Jacob Zuma, appeared yesterday alongside his colleague Sergeant Willby Molefe and the four other co-accused: Sipho Nkosi, Mapotswe Moloi, Lehlogonolo Tiekelele and Sipho Motsamayi.

The Times revealed yesterday that Tshabalala, whose top-secret security-clearance application is still pending, was being investigated for his alleged role in armed attacks on foreign businessmen and for crimes committed by convicted robber William "King of Bling" Mbatha.

Today The Times can reveal that Tshabalala was convicted of armed robbery in the Pretoria Magistrate's Court in 1994 and sentenced to 10 years' imprisonment. The court ordered he be declared unfit to be in possession of a firearm.

Tshabalala joined the South African Police Service in 2002.

It is believed that, before last week's court appearance, four witnesses were placed in a protection programme, while yesterday another three were moved to safety.

Sujanani said though the state claimed the statements contained the names of suspects and witnesses, "it is clear that the right to the docket is not absolute".

"An accused's constitutional rights are limited in such circumstances . but it is hardly possible for the state to argue that the release of these specific statements will jeopardise the investigation," she said.

It emerged, however, that several of the accused were out on bail for violent crimes, including armed robbery.

Nkosi, known also as Paulus Molefe, is currently out on R25000 bail for house robbery and was under house arrest when he was allegedly involved in a shootout with metro police officers in Tsakane in February, mere days after the heist.

Tshabalala and Molefe insisted their arrests were part of a "political smear campaign" linked to their investigation of disgraced former police crime intelligence head Lieutenant-General Richard Mdluli and his colleague Colonel Nkosana "Killer" Ximba.

Mdluli and Ximba were accused of killing Oupa Ramogibe, the boyfriend of Mdluli's lover in 1999.

Prosecutor Jacques Harrington dismissed their assertion that they were being targeted.

"These claims of political conspiracy are made but where is the proof?

"Nkosi says he was shot at by police, but an attempted murder case was never opened.

"In a previous armed robbery case, which Ximba arrested him for, Nkosi claims he was assaulted [and] threatened with torture and death, but then he withdrew the charge. Why?

"There are never reasons. There is, however, evidence of crimes committed while several of the accused are on bail and under house arrest.

"And now we have alarming evidence indicating a sinister twist to this investigation, " said Harrington, who called for the accused to be remanded to Groenpunt Maximum Security Prison.

Harrington yesterday brought in Sasolburg prison head Johannes Jacobs to testify about an alleged escape plot.

Jacobs said an inmate had revealed to him a plan the men had to escape prison.

"I got a letter . it said 'be careful' [and that] guns were involved . I strongly believe the escape is linked to them . we don't have the necessary security . they are dangerous and need to be moved," he said.

Magistrate Sujanani ordered that the accused be remanded into custody at Groenpunt prison.

National Prosecuting Authority spokesman Phaladi Shuping declined to comment on the placing of witnesses in protection programmes.

"Steps have been taken. It is a sensitive matter. We cannot elaborate," he said.

Police spokesman Captain Paul Ramaloko confirmed Tshabalala's conviction, but said they were unaware of his serving his sentence.

He said they were aware of the planned escape and were investigating it.