Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4
Results 31 to 37 of 37
  1. #31
    Member Messor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    BFN Freestate
    Age
    41
    Posts
    10,590

    Default Re: Are SA whites really being killed “like flies”? Why Steve Hofmeyr is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by TorK View Post
    Sure: No people being killed would be ideal.
    But I think the issue here is that people are murdered, because they belong to a specific ethnic group. Lot of the other homicides are probably gang violence, robbery-related killings where race/ethnicity of the victims virtually didn't play any role.
    Making sense of these things is very often difficult, because in all aspects of life data is skewed to reflect that of the person trying to make a point.

    Now I am one of those evil afrikaners Pre64 spoke about, and I even like some of Steve’s songs, some days we see things the way our minds are prepped, some days we see things the way they are.
    Seeing things the way they are, it is often much scarier than the way we want to see it.
    For example, we know for a fact a lot more black people are killed in SA than white people, and yes I know white people are a minority.
    But, the deaths are every bit as brutal.

    Now, if you tell me that because of the minority white people are murdered more than the average murder rate and it suggests a targeting of a specific minority I say ok, I get that.
    You get people that are talked into hating, and even killing an ethnic group.
    Now expand your data, not your argument, what about the rest, all the other killings, the majority of killed people?
    I understand that it worries you that there are people out there killing a certain group, my mind does not only work this way, and it forces me to think beyond that.

    If you know that more black people are killed, WITHOUT any ethnic reason, it worries me much more that there are such a large percentage of just plain bad people in this country.
    I mean if I give you a reason to do something bad, or I make you do something bad, shame on me, but if one faces up the fact that according to statistics that really isn’t hard to do since a LOT of people are just plain bad to start with.

    That is much scarier.
    We are seeing “A” result but it sure ain’t the cause.

    So the truth is this, even if by putting all the white folk on an island and saving each and every one of them from being killed that won’t make a single difference to SA, SA would just go on their merry way of killing each other.
    As a society we need ask why, and how to change that fact, if we don’t do that and only stare ourselves blind at the white murders then we are being……illogical.
    "It's not the dying part that scares me, it's the not living."

  2. #32
    User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3,350

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    You misunderstood the point of my post.
    I understood just used as a starting point because of the math you showed. I think we might be kinda on the same page on this topic

  3. #33
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Age
    48
    Posts
    134

    Default Re: Are SA whites really being killed “like flies”? Why Steve Hofmeyr is wrong

    Now, if you tell me that because of the minority white people are murdered more than the average murder rate and it suggests a targeting of a specific minority I say ok, I get that.
    You get people that are talked into hating, and even killing an ethnic group.
    Messor. Neither the actual nor the relative figures are relevant to determine whether people are targeted, because the perpetrators hat the ethnic group they belong to. What counts is the motivation. There again motivations are mixed as well. Hate can be combined with greed or sexual lust as well. It isn't mutually exclusive.

    With most killings including murders there is some social proximity involved, which creates the opportunity for a homicide to happen. But with the cases in question the perpetrators often have to travel for hundreds of kms and spend some longer time preparing the crime. If greed was the primary motive, wouldn't one pick an easier target with more promising rewards than a farmer that may or may not have some valuables at home any urban middle class home would be as well. Expected outputs in material/financial terms doesn't add up with the inputs here.

    Living the more narrow criminology aspects aside. There is clearly a political moment in this all. While not as blatant as the PAC, the ANC did its best to fuel hatred against White people, especially Afrikaners, during their so-called struggle years. This is in their songs, but undertones of this can also be found in speeches and documents. One shouldn't be deceived by their talks of peace/reconciliation during 1990s that all was done to get and keep defences down so they could finally take over via a rigged election in 1994. Scape-goating Whites also continued afterwards in veiled, but also more open form. The veiled form is "Blaming Apartheid", a political system brought by the White Men and more closely associated with Afrikaners. You can replace that with Colonialism, Racism, White-Privilege. Those are all code-words used to dispense the existence of White people (This isn't only done in RSA, btw. ). The open form is more practised by the likes of Malema, but Zuma did do this on occasion as well. Ramaphosa makes more moderate noises, but there is a subtext to this detectable, if only you dig deep enough.

    I wonder how they are going to spin the hangover from their lockdown, due to a "pandemic" that more and more starts looking like a figment of imagination. Blame whom? Apartheid? Racism? White Monopoly Capital? or more bluntly Whites in general, because didn't suffer that much from the consequences.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Are SA whites really being killed “like flies”? Why Steve Hofmeyr is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by TorK View Post
    I think I need to start a separate thread on the issue of gun law and murder rates.
    You don't need to. There is MASSES of good research and stats if you care to look. All of it points in one direction "more guns = less crime." There is NO causal link between gun ownership and crime.

  5. #35
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Age
    48
    Posts
    134

    Default Re: Are SA whites really being killed “like flies”? Why Steve Hofmeyr is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick View Post
    You don't need to. There is MASSES of good research and stats if you care to look. All of it points in one direction "more guns = less crime." There is NO causal link between gun ownership and crime.
    Thanks Dick. Can you point me to threads dealing with the issue.

    On a note, what I was looking for was a thorough debunking of Nechama Brodie's claims and more specifically the research (academic activism) she cited in support for them.

    I believe that crime or criminality isn't caused by material objects or the possession thereof. Rather it stems from attitudes of the individuals committing the crimes.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Are SA whites really being killed “like flies”? Why Steve Hofmeyr is wrong

    I think we can rationalise this, and theorise til the cows come home. At the end of the day, the incidence of farm attacks have increased. They are more brutal, more planned, more targeted and more brazen, than they were 10 or 20 years ago. So any way you care to portray them, for whatever reason, the fact remains: they are increasing. And yes, along with all the other lawlessness one is exposed to in SA on a daily basis.

  7. #37

    Question Re: Are SA whites really being killed “like flies”? Why Steve Hofmeyr is wrong

    I just wonder how many apprehended / caught / charged / sentenced / sitting in jail -- farm attack / farm murderers

    Have been carefully and fully interviewed by a competent trained experienced investigator / criminologist ( or in fact anyone that has a direct interest in these events )

    Have any of these interviews been recorded / analysed / scrutinised for further study / and put into report / book form ?

    Does anyone actually know ..

    who these perps are ?
    who their co-accomplices are ?
    where they come from ?
    what their background is ?
    what their MO is ?
    what their training is ?
    what their motivation is ?

    WHY they [REALLY] commit these crimes ?

    It would appear that this is the type of intelligence that is needed -- but -- is lacking ?

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4

Similar Threads

  1. Fly fishing - Fly Case with flies
    By DRD in forum Pay It Forward
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-08-2015, 07:54
  2. Lord of the flies - I don't get it
    By Maroelas in forum Book, Magazine and Movie Reviews
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 21-01-2014, 10:56
  3. Steve Hofmeyr roast on Comedy Central
    By Maroelas in forum Small Talk
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 26-09-2012, 14:23

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •