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  1. #21

    Default Re: living-off-land-delusions

    I spent 10 days living off the land way back in the Voortrekkers youth organisation.
    We were allowed sleeping bags, knives, matches and self made bows and arrows.
    I can still remember the hunger pangs. They used to become more severe at set meal times, and then get less intense. then they would be back at the next meal time. We were a group of 20 matric boys and girls.
    I can also remember just how small a leguan (killed with bow and arrow while hibernating in a rock crevice) or guinea fowl (thrown off its roost with a knobkierie) becomes when divided by 20.
    We also scrounged some very hard yellow mealies, and pumpkins (yech!!) off a neighbouring field.

    Everyone shed between 5 and 10 kgs of weight during this time. So all of us were at a nett calorie (or kJ) loss.

    I suppose when this activity is stretched over a year or more, you would either die, or reach a kind of balance with some seasonal gains and losses in body weight.

    When somebody voluntarily practise this kind of survival today, they set themselves rules, eg:
    -Don't take ratpacks/ tinned foods to last the whole time -then its just camping, not surviving.
    -Allow yourself certain tools - knives, sleeping bags, maybe a rifle - to at least be able to collect some foods.
    -Abide by hunting laws/ respect for property. - (Otherwise goats, cattle etc would make for some high calorie diets!)

    If you really end up in a survival situation, you would not care for nature conservation- or property laws.

    You can simply ask the policeman/ land owner/ game ranger who arrest you, to stop at the first Macdonalds!


    Willie barnard

  2. #22
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    Default Re: living-off-land-delusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Barnard View Post
    You can simply ask the policeman/ land owner/ game ranger who arrest you, to stop at the first Macdonalds!
    Last time I checked policemen/land owner/rangers were edible too. Just don't eat the brains: it may give you Kuru which will drive you mad.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: living-off-land-delusions

    It is why a Paleo family group spent every waking hour gathering food. Men and boys hunted and fished, women and young children gathered berries, roots, nuts or fruits or just about anything edible.

    Living off the land can be done, if it didn't work there would be no people on planet Earth.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: living-off-land-delusions

    I tried this some time ago when I did my FGASA 1+2, wasn't easy and we were allowed a set list of equipment (machete,rope,single ground sheet, 1x plastic container, and 1 jacket + knife) we were out for 5 days. I think its got alot to do with mindset. I wont say I really enjoyed it as I am a firm believer in "Camping Comfortably" dont see why I should rough it if some prior planning can provide a sustainable level of comfort.

  5. #25

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    Something else to keep in mind in this type of scenario is that it will only be sustainable if the ratio of man to area is low. So in Messor's case if he is the only man on a 200 hectare piece of land it is doable but it gets more difficult as the number of people increase while the land area stays the same. Doc Willie already highlighted that it was quite difficult to feed 20 people so just imaging if you had to share your 200 hectares with 999 other people?

    In the example of 1000 people on 200 hectares an individual will probably not survive. You will have to form groups/gangs to protect your food and security against others. Inevitably you will have to reduce the number of people per area (kill off others) or use strong leadership/violence to organize everyone if you want to survive long term.

  6. #26

    Default Re: living-off-land-delusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rudes View Post
    Something else to keep in mind in this type of scenario is that it will only be sustainable if the ratio of man to area is low. So in Messor's case if he is the only man on a 200 hectare piece of land it is doable but it gets more difficult as the number of people increase while the land area stays the same. Doc Willie already highlighted that it was quite difficult to feed 20 people so just imaging if you had to share your 200 hectares with 999 other people?

    In the example of 1000 people on 200 hectares an individual will probably not survive. You will have to form groups/gangs to protect your food and security against others. Inevitably you will have to reduce the number of people per area (kill off others) or use strong leadership/violence to organize everyone if you want to survive long term.
    I think you are giving humans too little credit. You are making them sound like cattle, we are certainly not LSU's to be worked into a carrying capacity.
    I think that with more people man will be more successful as collectively he will have more chance of survival.

  7. #27

    Default Re: living-off-land-delusions

    Springer:
    You will have to form groups/gangs to protect your food and security against others. Inevitably you will have to reduce the number of people per area (kill off others) or use strong leadership/violence to organize everyone if you want to survive long term.
    I think that pretty much answers your supposition. A given area of land cannot sustain unlimited numbers, regardless of how skilled or clever you are or how much you co-operate. Migration and dispersal are inevitable and will be driven by the availability of resources. When the resources are consumed, you will have to move on.

  8. #28

    Default Re: living-off-land-delusions

    The whole concept is supposition Bushboy. However, history will reflect that mankind is better able to survive collectively than alone.

  9. #29

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    You are correct, I do not give humans much credit. History and human nature dictates that there will not be a homogenous working towards a single goal in a survival situation.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: living-off-land-delusions

    as a papau new guinean cannibal once said, "if God didn't want us to eat men, why did he make them out of meat?"

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