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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikor View Post
    All well and good...until it is YOUR ass on the Death Sentence 'line'...
    True that.

    Own a gun, carry the gun, DON'T lock it in the safe if you can carry it. Be prepared to fight back and by the looks of trust nobody.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Farm / Rural attacks 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ikor View Post
    All well and good...until it is YOUR ass on the Death Sentence 'line'...
    Exactly!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokman View Post
    Bring back the death sentence.
    Because the ANC today. And maybe the EFF in a few years would be awesome custodians of the power of life and death.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Farm / Rural attacks 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    Because the ANC today. And maybe the EFF in a few years would be awesome custodians of the power of life and death.
    I fail to see the link here. As far as I am aware sentencing of the death sentence would be carried out by the judicial authority which, in a constitutional democracy like South Africa, is independent of the other two tiers of government (legislative and executive). So whether the ANC, Eff, DA or anyone comes into power they can only be involved in the writing of laws not in the application thereof.

    Is my interpretation of this government system correct or have I got it all wrong?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Farm / Rural attacks 2014

    I am all for thinning out the gene pool of murders, pedophiles, rapists, etc but I highly doubt that the South African system will have the capacity to deal with the huge numbers of criminals being sentenced to death. If they implemented it tomorrow they would have to execute a insane number of people 'humanely'. The accused will still have right to appeal which can extend and drain the process, legal blundering from inside the courtroom, shoddy police work incl the over-swamped forensic unit and having the UN watchdog breathing down the neck of the most 'beautiful' constitution in the world?

    I can see innocent people being sentenced because of a shoddy system, it might be 1% but that could be you, even scarier if it came out of a SD situation that just went south.

    But having the most violent fill up the prison system is no solution either, so I honestly don't know.

    Perhaps a legal-eagle like Skaaphaas will be better able, in his opinion, to clarify if the death penalty is legalised will actually work.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Farm / Rural attacks 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by atunguyd View Post
    I fail to see the link here. As far as I am aware sentencing of the death sentence would be carried out by the judicial authority which, in a constitutional democracy like South Africa, is independent of the other two tiers of government (legislative and executive). So whether the ANC, Eff, DA or anyone comes into power they can only be involved in the writing of laws not in the application thereof.

    Is my interpretation of this government system correct or have I got it all wrong?
    My thoughts too.

    The more I learn about the justice system the less this possibility concerns me: i.e. being wrongfully convicted of a crime deserving the death sentence or being sentenced to death for a crime blatantly not deserving it. It just seems highly improbable that politicians would go to these lengths to pressure judges to "murder" someone via legal means when it would be much simpler to do it with a bit of more traditional murder.

    The people most at risk of these kinds of things would be political opponents, folk being charged for treason, or social justice activists exposing the wrongs of the government. In these cases the death penalty is not often enforced because it creates a martyr, even if it is well then, if it wasn't this it would have been an "accident". And also in these cases it is still worth speaking up, and one knows the risks when doing so.

    If whole sale murdering of folk starts via the courts then it will be some kind of slow-motion genocide or political purge in progress and in these days of social media/cell phones I think it wouldn't be long before there would be fighting in the streets and civil war... I just don't figure it will be easily done.

    So I still support the death penalty being restored. I don't see abuse of it as a compelling argument. If I am on death row for some heinous crime which I didn't commit then 25 years in cmax prison vs a noose doesn't seem like much of a win.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Farm / Rural attacks 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by noost View Post
    I am all for thinning out the gene pool of murders, pedophiles, rapists, etc but I highly doubt that the South African system will have the capacity to deal with the huge numbers of criminals being sentenced to death. If they implemented it tomorrow they would have to execute a insane number of people 'humanely'. The accused will still have right to appeal which can extend and drain the process, legal blundering from inside the courtroom, shoddy police work incl the over-swamped forensic unit and having the UN watchdog breathing down the neck of the most 'beautiful' constitution in the world?
    I don't see that any more work needs to be done than giving the judges the option of a death sentence which is one step more than a life sentence. I don't see it being widely used except in very brutal and clear cut cases.

    Admittedly political noise from abroad and locally and crybaby media publicity around the hanging of the "poor" multiple-murdering-brutal-rapist will very trying indeed. But hey paying board and rent for them is also trying at a different level.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Farm / Rural attacks 2014

    Because obviously the death penalty has never been abused previously in history. Especially not by the old government.

    Also criminals don't expect to get caught. So short of a little biblical revenge we shouldn't expect a dip in these sort of crimes.

    And as ikor mentioned its awesome when the gun the hijacker had disappears and all the cops have is you standing over the dead 15 year old you admit shooting and it's your neck they want to stretch.

    Yay the death penalty magical panacea and bane of baddies.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Farm / Rural attacks 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    Because obviously the death penalty has never been abused previously in history. Especially not by the old government.
    I don't dispute that it has been abused. And certainly communist countries win hands down in the abuses which The Gulag Archipelago will attest to. But in that same context the courts could be abused now. And it wouldn't be fun for anyone now.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    Also criminals don't expect to get caught. So short of a little biblical revenge we shouldn't expect a dip in these sort of crimes.
    I don't dispute this too. But it is a pretty safe way to ensure you won't be serially prosecuting someone. It is a "no recidivism here" kind of societal solution. It is also less costly in tax terms to society (in the case of a just execution). Whether the benefit to society would bear the cost would have to factor that of unjust executions along with the just executions. This would be hard to do. However avoiding this debate by saying that the justice system has to be perfect in the case of death sentencing whereas it can be imperfect for life sentencing doesn't seem reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    And as ikor mentioned its awesome when the gun the hijacker had disappears and all the cops have is you standing over the dead 15 year old you admit shooting and it's your neck they want to stretch.
    A agree that this is a bad situation. But this situation exists today, with or without the death sentence. Its not like the wild west where they string you up to the nearest tree by 3pm that afternoon with a small crowd of onlookers watching you dance and by sundown you are pushing daises on boot hill. There is a legal process. There are laws and court cases and appeals. After this lengthy process only is there a sentencing. Then the judge has the option of sentencing the guilty person. I don't see the likelihood of mass hangings without a huge societal breakdown. I see it as a reasonable option. Your way of phrasing this makes it easy to parody, but the parody is more aptly suited to a township necklacing than actual judicial process.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    Yay the death penalty magical panacea and bane of baddies.
    I don't consider the death penalty idealist. I don't expect magical decreases in crime. I do expect to see some of the brutal murders hanged instead of spending their lives in prison. I still expect to see many life sentences.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Farm / Rural attacks 2014


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