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  1. #1

    Default Dealer license - an easier way of getting more firearms

    I just went trough the conditions and regulations pertinent to issuing a dealer's license.

    Hearing the complaints of many that the government ought to license the person and not the guns, I wonder why so few people become/remain dealers, especially if it apparently is so easy to do so?

    Reading trough the regulations, the conditions imposed on a potential dealer are ridiculously easy to comply with, the requirements to securing the premises is not more strict than what most people already effect to their homes. Even if one does not have suitable property of his own, in an economy crisis we live in, renting a small place is not that expensive, especially if it is not located at a posh mall.

    And the incentive - import yourself almost any firearms and ammo and add it to your stock without having to justify "need" to the CFR for each individual firearm.

    Am I missing something?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Dealer license - an easier way of getting more firearms

    Try the almost weekly visits from SAPS to check registers etc... and, if they don't like you, general harassment they can put you through ;)

    That being said I'm still keen to get my Dealers competency, once all the other paperwork for my new acquisitions is taken care of ;D

  3. #3
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dealer license - an easier way of getting more firearms

    Having to carry around stock books if you take your dealer stocked guns to the range.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

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    Default Re: Dealer license - an easier way of getting more firearms

    May I sum it up in two words? Forget it.

    Obtaining a dealer's license is not as easy as it sounds and unless you have a spare million or two lying around - and prepared to waste it; don't even bother. Getting a dealer's license can take anything up to 2 years and in that time, you will have to have had installed on the premises you are going to operate from: the perimeter security (substantial), the safe keeping facilities, the books and records, the alarm systems; the camera's - the list goes on. The you've got to get the guns and try and sell them. And here's the kicker: No, you cannot go out and play with your toys. Go read the regulations again. These guns may not leave your premises unless via a valid license or on a valid transport document. Also, you may not 'trade' anywhere other than the premises listed on your license or you have to apply for a special temporary permit. That means you cannot go to the range with dealer's stock to show your mates, to use or to brag with. That loophole was closed years ago. Also, you have to account for every round of ammo on inventory and they do count each and every bullet!. Only a certified gunsmith may test fire a weapon on an accredited range and then for testing purposes only. Breaking the rules involves massive fines, incompetency declarations and even jail time. And I haven't even touched on the administrative nightmare and bullshit you're faced every day with. Then the inspections: monthly; and if you have a large inventory, be prepared to close shop for a day or two.

    Also, be prepared to become a living, walking, breathing target - you will learn to function in condition red 24/7 or you will die. Your next customer at the door may very well be the last person you'll ever see for he may be the sod who is going to off you in a robbery. Or, they may abduct your wife/child etc and hold them hostage for access to your safe. And no, forget the Hollywood stuff. You cannot greet each customer at the door with a gun drawn and you know the saying: you can't outdraw a drawn gun. Your risk profile goes through the roof! You're not mobile; you're a sitting target with a moerse welcome mat out to every gangster in town. Oh, and your insurance rate goes up on everything because you're high risk.

    Gun shop anyone?


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    Default Re: Dealer license - an easier way of getting more firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by gunsports
    May I sum it up in two words? Forget it.

    Obtaining a dealer's license is not as easy as it sounds and unless you have a spare million or two lying around - and prepared to waste it; don't even bother. Getting a dealer's license can take anything up to 2 years and in that time, you will have to have had installed on the premises you are going to operate from: the perimeter security (substantial), the safe keeping facilities, the books and records, the alarm systems; the camera's - the list goes on. The you've got to get the guns and try and sell them. And here's the kicker: No, you cannot go out and play with your toys. Go read the regulations again. These guns may not leave your premises unless via a valid license or on a valid transport document. Also, you may not 'trade' anywhere other than the premises listed on your license or you have to apply for a special temporary permit. That means you cannot go to the range with dealer's stock to show your mates, to use or to brag with. That loophole was closed years ago. Also, you have to account for every round of ammo on inventory and they do count each and every bullet!. Only a certified gunsmith may test fire a weapon on an accredited range and then for testing purposes only. Breaking the rules involves massive fines, incompetency declarations and even jail time. And I haven't even touched on the administrative nightmare and bullshit you're faced every day with. Then the inspections: monthly; and if you have a large inventory, be prepared to close shop for a day or two.

    Also, be prepared to become a living, walking, breathing target - you will learn to function in condition red 24/7 or you will die. Your next customer at the door may very well be the last person you'll ever see for he may be the sod who is going to off you in a robbery. Or, they may abduct your wife/child etc and hold them hostage for access to your safe. And no, forget the Hollywood stuff. You cannot greet each customer at the door with a gun drawn and you know the saying: you can't outdraw a drawn gun. Your risk profile goes through the roof! You're not mobile; you're a sitting target with a moerse welcome mat out to every gangster in town. Oh, and your insurance rate goes up on everything because you're high risk.

    Gun shop anyone?

    Sounds appealing.......not!

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    Moderator camouflage762's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dealer license - an easier way of getting more firearms

    Re: The above. With exception of 1 or 2 points sounds like most other honest businesses in RSA.
    Recent studies show that 1 out of every 3 liberals are just as dumb as the other 2

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    Default Re: Dealer license - an easier way of getting more firearms

    The information I provide below is not intended to put you off your idea and I wish you luck - with all the dealers that have been lost to the public we can all probably do with more. It is said that of around 800 dealers before the new FCA came into operation there are around 130 still operating (I cannot vouch for this - it is hearsay)

    All dealer licenses are issued on condition that it may not be used for purposes of "personal collection".

    If you do not deal and deal "enough" you WILL have a problem. Dealing just in ammo for example is most probably not going to secure you a licence to deal in firearms.

    Would you think it advisable to have on record that you are a dealer with your home address as the dealer address - if not you will have to have obtain dealer premises with safe facilities complying with the SABS specs.

    Having an approved metal safe will most probably not convince the authorities that you are serious in dealing purely because of the size of the safe and quantity of stock you can keep in it.

    If you are really dealing then you will have to put up a "walk in" safe at premises you are renting for the purpose. The walk in safe will have to comply with SABS specs and to comply is going to cost you anything from R35K upwards for the smallest of ones and most probably quite a bit more not even taking into consideration monthly rental, alarms system and monthly security company fees.

    You will most probably find it is not as easy as it appears in the act and regs - licencing a firearms is much more difficult, time consuming and patience onerous than it merely appears from the act and regs - think exponentially when you get to applying for a dealers licence.

    As the regulations stand now you will have to renew the dealers licence every year - renew = the same as re-apply - you have to go through the same documentary process every year that you went through with the initial application.

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    Default Re: Dealer license - an easier way of getting more firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by gunsports
    May I sum it up in two words? Forget it.

    Obtaining a dealer's license is not as easy as it sounds and unless you have a spare million or two lying around - and prepared to waste it; don't even bother. Getting a dealer's license can take anything up to 2 years and in that time, you will have to have had installed on the premises you are going to operate from: the perimeter security (substantial), the safe keeping facilities, the books and records, the alarm systems; the camera's - the list goes on. The you've got to get the guns and try and sell them. And here's the kicker: No, you cannot go out and play with your toys. Go read the regulations again. These guns may not leave your premises unless via a valid license or on a valid transport document. Also, you may not 'trade' anywhere other than the premises listed on your license or you have to apply for a special temporary permit. That means you cannot go to the range with dealer's stock to show your mates, to use or to brag with. That loophole was closed years ago. Also, you have to account for every round of ammo on inventory and they do count each and every bullet!. Only a certified gunsmith may test fire a weapon on an accredited range and then for testing purposes only. Breaking the rules involves massive fines, incompetency declarations and even jail time. And I haven't even touched on the administrative nightmare and bullshit you're faced every day with. Then the inspections: monthly; and if you have a large inventory, be prepared to close shop for a day or two.

    Also, be prepared to become a living, walking, breathing target - you will learn to function in condition red 24/7 or you will die. Your next customer at the door may very well be the last person you'll ever see for he may be the sod who is going to off you in a robbery. Or, they may abduct your wife/child etc and hold them hostage for access to your safe. And no, forget the Hollywood stuff. You cannot greet each customer at the door with a gun drawn and you know the saying: you can't outdraw a drawn gun. Your risk profile goes through the roof! You're not mobile; you're a sitting target with a moerse welcome mat out to every gangster in town. Oh, and your insurance rate goes up on everything because you're high risk.

    Gun shop anyone?

    You sound like you can confince me to buy LOADS more firearms...where is your shop? fighting0035

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunsports View Post
    May I sum it up in two words? Forget it.

    Obtaining a dealer's license is not as easy as it sounds and unless you have a spare million or two lying around - and prepared to waste it; don't even bother. Getting a dealer's license can take anything up to 2 years and in that time, you will have to have had installed on the premises you are going to operate from: the perimeter security (substantial), the safe keeping facilities, the books and records, the alarm systems; the camera's - the list goes on. The you've got to get the guns and try and sell them. And here's the kicker: No, you cannot go out and play with your toys. Go read the regulations again. These guns may not leave your premises unless via a valid license or on a valid transport document. Also, you may not 'trade' anywhere other than the premises listed on your license or you have to apply for a special temporary permit. That means you cannot go to the range with dealer's stock to show your mates, to use or to brag with. That loophole was closed years ago. Also, you have to account for every round of ammo on inventory and they do count each and every bullet!. Only a certified gunsmith may test fire a weapon on an accredited range and then for testing purposes only. Breaking the rules involves massive fines, incompetency declarations and even jail time. And I haven't even touched on the administrative nightmare and bull**** you're faced every day with. Then the inspections: monthly; and if you have a large inventory, be prepared to close shop for a day or two.

    Also, be prepared to become a living, walking, breathing target - you will learn to function in condition red 24/7 or you will die. Your next customer at the door may very well be the last person you'll ever see for he may be the sod who is going to off you in a robbery. Or, they may abduct your wife/child etc and hold them hostage for access to your safe. And no, forget the Hollywood stuff. You cannot greet each customer at the door with a gun drawn and you know the saying: you can't outdraw a drawn gun. Your risk profile goes through the roof! You're not mobile; you're a sitting target with a moerse welcome mat out to every gangster in town. Oh, and your insurance rate goes up on everything because you're high risk.

    Gun shop anyone?
    I have just learned to love my job

  10. #10

    Default Dealer license

    Hi does anyone know where I can get info on where and how to apply for a dealers licence? would really appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction.

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