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  1. #261
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    Default Re: To vote or not to vote.......

    Maybe a bit late but my view on "to vote or not to vote" is simple ... if you dont vote then dont complain.

    Yes it might not be a fair election but hey at least you did your part.

  2. #262
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    Default Re: To vote or not to vote.......

    Francois. There's one point you make that I agree on.

    The question is - are we moving away from socialism /communism or not? And does that work for you as an individual and your offspring, or not...

    If we established a Democratic system in 1994 (which we did).

    How did SA expect to keep the ruling system to remain democratic?

    Because you can democratically vote in a Communist state....easily - and it will be acceptable because the way your election system is set up - allows for this to happen.

    That's why EVERY informed vote is so valuable in RSA, for those who did not ever want to see RSA turn into a communist or socialist state, or worse a dictatorship...like Zim.

    It may very well be that the majority of voters dont want democracy or a free economy but socialism and and no free economy.

    Be that as it may - a socialist system cant survive here as the system stands now, so it will require massive changes in policy and law.

    Remember - historically nationalist party members walked over to the ruling party just before 1994 election and thereafter, just before the 2014 election many blue party members walked over to the ruling party.

    What does the ruling party stand for?

    African nationalism
    Left-wing nationalism
    Social democracy - I would call this Socialist democracy. (Marx & Lenin inspired ideology)
    Democratic socialism


    No surprises there.

  3. #263
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    Default Re: To vote or not to vote.......

    Just heard more precise and official estimation of 72% voter turn out, so expected total votes around 18.3 million including spoilled ballets.

  4. #264
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    Default Re: To vote or not to vote.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Todor View Post
    darrenlobo, what a load of shit you speak! Want to guess what would happen in an election where we all withhold our votes? The guy who votes (for himself most likely) rules. Those who crave power will always chase power - e.g politicians. Democracy gives a way to remove them from "the throne" by ticking a box on a paper instead of starting a civil war every time.

    Inaction never was, and never will be effective form of protest. You should be so ignorant to not see that you are doing precisely what a power-hungry government expects you do be doing against it - NOTHING.
    Todor, people rule you because you accept being ruled. Politicians have power because people like you think they should have it. Voting is part of the mechanism to get you to accept that rule. Stop being fooled by elections. Remember what the doctors say, first do no harm. Participating in elections does harm. It isn't taking action for good. It is doing what the power hungry govt wants you to do.

    Modern democracy isn't about individuals it's about institutions. Politicians come & go, you get to vote for them. Institutions remain, you don't get to vote for them. Power is in the institutions not the individuals. They want you to think that power is with the individual holding office. That is the big fraud that you're falling for.

    Nonvoting isn't a protest, it is a first step in rejecting an institution, namely the state. We need to mentally separate people from the govt. Only once they do that will they resist it in other ways. Real power is controlling money. As long as the govt can force us to pay for their operations they control us. Voting doesn't matter. Resisting taxation is the key to restoring liberty.

    "That every man who puts money into the hands of a "government" (so called), puts into its hands a sword which will be used against himself, to extort more money from him, and also to keep him in subjection to its arbitrary will."

    --Lysander Spooner, NO TREASON NO. VI. THE CONSTITUTION OF NO AUTHORITY

    BTW, an experience that taught me a lot was living in Venezuela. I was there when they elected Hugo Chavez. Tell me again how well voting works.

  5. #265
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    Default Re: To vote or not to vote.......

    And surprise surprise he is a sovereign citizen.
    "Learning only occurs after repetitive ,demoralizing failures!"

    Pat Rogers (RIP)

  6. #266
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    Default Re: To vote or not to vote.......

    Soooooo. We all need to become anarchists?

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    And surprise surprise he is a sovereign citizen.
    Does that mean he builds his own roads? Conducts his own justice system? Pipelines his own water? Using his own electricity?

    Must be a nightmare not using the state's...

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetelestai View Post
    Does that mean he builds his own roads? Conducts his own justice system? Pipelines his own water? Using his own electricity?

    Must be a nightmare not using the state's...
    Those appear magically out if the sky.


    Or you get to go all Mad Max and shit.
    "Learning only occurs after repetitive ,demoralizing failures!"

    Pat Rogers (RIP)

  9. #269
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    Default Re: To vote or not to vote.......

    Quote Originally Posted by darrenlobo View Post
    Todor, people rule you because you accept being ruled. Politicians have power because people like you think they should have it. Voting is part of the mechanism to get you to accept that rule. Stop being fooled by elections. Remember what the doctors say, first do no harm. Participating in elections does harm. It isn't taking action for good. It is doing what the power hungry govt wants you to do.
    Hmm. so what do you suggest one does to change the government? Voting is obviously not an option. So you'd pick a violent overthrowing I suppose?

    We have huge differences in SA. From wealth gaps to enormous gaps in education levels. People need to start learning that to get a better life(style) one needs to be productive, to be productive one needs opportunity. Now where do you think that opportunity should stem from? Running battles in the street? I think not. If SA gets to that point, there will be no hope of return until we hit the iron age again.

  10. #270
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    Default Re: To vote or not to vote.......

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    And surprise surprise he is a sovereign citizen.
    Imagine that!

    (Not here he's not...anymore at least :-)
    Last edited by ikor; 08-05-2014 at 12:51.
    Run Fast, Bite Hard!

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