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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    The 'far more to it than that' intrigues me. It genuinely does.
    I must admit that I feel the same, so much mystery in collecting.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by GameFarmer View Post
    Surely one starts somewhere
    Correct. And I've explained it at length on this forum. If you and others don't like it there's nothing I can do about it anyway. There's no point in carping on and on at me about it. It is what it is. Get used to the idea. The system is designed the way it is for good reason. It's deliberately designed with the idea that you need to thoroughly prove your credentials as a collector first over a significant period of time before there is any possibility of collecting modern semi-autos. It's designed in part to avoid the very problem that's now cropping up with section 16 licenses because every second gnottus has obtained DSS and is trying to get as many semi-auto licenses as he can, potentially placing all the truly dedicated sports shooters at risk. The very fact that you're trying to collect guns by way of the section 16 mechanism speaks volumes.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameFarmer View Post
    The 'far more to it than that' intrigues me. It genuinely does.
    Tell me what you already collect (outside of guns) and I'll try and explain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameFarmer View Post
    But, I can see the writing on the wall. Especially the 'if you don't like the rules, find another game'.
    If there's writing on the wall, its your handwriting, not mine. I can't change the system (partly legislatively entrenched) and even if I could I probably wouldn't.
    Last edited by Wanderin' Zero; 22-08-2015 at 14:27.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by mic View Post
    Keep in mind that your collecting "Theme" need not be old. My wife collects "Polymer framed handguns chambered for 9mm". That, by definition, is a "modern" theme as the oldest gun cannot have been manufactured before 1970.
    Which is intriguing to me. There are some very interesting guns in that category, from home grown to Soviet guns.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    That's a great example Kb. Hugely interesting to her no doubt and I respect that, but for me? Stone cold! That's how it is.

  5. #15
    Moderator Skaaphaas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    The age and demographic is probably also do to with the money aspect. You need to have a quite a surplus of available spending money to actually collect items as expensive as firearms.
    Sent electronically, thus not signed.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaaphaas View Post
    The age and demographic is probably also do to with the money aspect. You need to have a quite a surplus of available spending money to actually collect items as expensive as firearms.
    Depends upon what you want to collect really. There's stuff out there that's almost given away. Building a nice Lee-Enfield collection doesn't have to cost an absolute fortune. Or of Star pistols. Or maybe Webley revolvers. And so forth. Lots of people without deep pockets have very interesting collections. Besides, if you shop around and buy right, you actually make a bit of money and the hobby pays for itself. Guns can do way better than stock markets.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Thought I new F.All about guns and started collecting. Some years later now I realize that I actually know F.nothing. Once the true bug bites you, a new world opens up and crazy obsessions become part of your life. The cost issue in collecting is very interesting. Within a collection Field and Theme one is normally guided by your interest i.e. historec, technical,cultural or what ever is the core interest which you demonstrate by your collection. Obviously monatary value or investment potencial may be the core motivation of your collection, however I have noted that in SA there are only very few collectors with monatary value as core. Literature indicating the value of collectors guns are based on the US and European markets and these $ and Euro prices have very little significance locally with the tight gun inport and export control and red tape. It will be very interesting to know how many collecters collect for financial bennifit rather than some other passion for the spesific fire arms.

    Coming from a very strong technical background, I never cared for history. Given being a bit older now, I must say that Collecting Guns opened my passion for history especially the SA history and culture to a level where my heritage is one of the most important issues in my life. Gun collecting is quite a journey....

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Apologies in advance for the wall of text. Sometimes though, one liners don’t get the message across.

    I’ve given this thread a lot of thought. Couple of weeks, in fact. What follows, might seem out of context and over reacting much for the casual reader, but it has a bit of history. I’ll try my best to keep it short.

    A bit slow, but eventually realised that my ‘old boys club’ comment was interpreted incorrectly by Peter who focused on the age aspect. Wrong. The emphasis was more about the rules being implemented /interpreted/enforced with the focus on exclusivity. To keep the undesirables out.

    Much like the Hunters that wanted to keep the armed EDC crowd (read Sport Shooters) away from ‘their’ show.

    Which I totally get. We have to protect our sport/activity to not give SAP reason to question. So we implement rules, which progressively grow to such a hurdle that we actually dissuade many. Which, if your licenses are on the line, makes perfectly sense.

    I mean really, collecting polymer framed handguns cool, but anything with AR in it is straight from the devil?

    WZ, your insinuation that I’m trying to collect AR’s with Sport Shooting? In a collector thread? Maybe read again. You completely missed the plot. I’m both a dedicated hunter and dedicated sport shooter. I come from the Bona Fide Hunter days. I’m not looking for shortcuts or to cheat the system. If you don’t know me, don’t brand me.

    And yes, there are people with the means to collect every brand of AR, because they want to and can afford it. To be brutally direct.

    Don’t fear though. I’ve had enough of these manipulative rules and old boys clubs. Enough politics. Apartheid much.

    Sulking, yeah, a little. I’ll get over it though. Actually more sad about the future of firearm ownership.

    Such a pity that we, the firearm community, will never be able to stand together.

    Divided, by design. Conquered by design.

    Roger, over and out.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by GameFarmer View Post
    A bit slow, but eventually realised that my ‘old boys club’ comment was interpreted incorrectly by Peter who focused on the age aspect. Wrong. The emphasis was more about the rules being implemented /interpreted/enforced with the focus on exclusivity. To keep the undesirables out.
    It's not about exclusivity. It's about whether you're really a collector or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameFarmer View Post
    I mean really, collecting polymer framed handguns cool, but anything with AR in it is straight from the devil?
    And there's your real issue (some would say sour grapes). You want to collect AR's from day one and the system as currently established doesn't allow it. Sorry but there's no reason you've given that would justify exempting you from the path hundreds of others have walked.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameFarmer View Post
    WZ, your insinuation that I’m trying to collect AR’s with Sport Shooting? In a collector thread? Maybe read again. You completely missed the plot. I’m both a dedicated hunter and dedicated sport shooter. I come from the Bona Fide Hunter days. I’m not looking for shortcuts or to cheat the system. If you don’t know me, don’t brand me.
    I'm not the one who said I would manage to get them licensed under S16 albeit with some difficulty; you did. I quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by GameFarmer View Post
    Sure with a lot of effort, dedication and lawyer fees, I'll get the new ones licensed for sport. But I can only motivate so many backup guns for each discipline.

    Rather ridiculous if I may say, for me to have to take this route, especially seen that I'm actually buying rifles, because of a specific interest.


    Sounds much like collecting. No?
    The clear implication is that you are collecting albeit you are not a collector.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameFarmer View Post
    And yes, there are people with the means to collect every brand of AR, because they want to and can afford it. To be brutally direct.
    So what? We have members who collect Purdey and Holland & Holland (to mention only two brands) at a couple of million a pop. You think because you've got money you should be exempt from the rules others are subject to?

    Quote Originally Posted by GameFarmer View Post
    Don’t fear though. I’ve had enough of these manipulative rules and old boys clubs. Enough politics. Apartheid much.
    So its an old boys club because you feel the rules we've all played by for a pretty long time should somehow not apply to you? We've all walked this path, those of us who are Cat B or Cat A. Yes, it's long and its hard work. What makes you a special case? Certainly nothing you've written here.
    Last edited by Wanderin' Zero; 08-09-2015 at 15:14.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    WZ legislation and tradition aside , do you think that collecting AR's is less worthy than collecting double rifles ? Or that it should be something that one shouldn't be able to collect out the gate ?

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