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Thread: Nutty's drivel

  1. #1
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Nutty's drivel

    > FACTS SURROUNDING COMPENSATION AND DESTRUCTION OF FIREARMS
    > DURING AMNESTY 2010
    >
    > GOSA's misrepresentation of facts and false accusation of
    > Ministry is ill-informed
    >
    >
    > PRETORIA - 23 January 2010. The Minister of Police, Nathi
    > Mthethwa has once again reiterated circumstances under which
    > compensation shall not be paid during the current Firearms
    > Amnesty (11 January - 11 April 2010). The conditions of the
    > Amnesty including Government's position on not paying
    > compensation on firearms surrendered for destruction, have been
    > from the start and are continuously and widely publicised.
    >
    > The Minister's emphasis follows yesterday's public statement by
    > the Gun Owners of South Africa (GOSA) headlined "GOSA says
    > minister dodging firearm compensation." In the statement, GOSA
    > accuses Minister Mthethwa of avoiding paying compensation to
    > gun owners who willingly hand their firearms to the police. "We
    > suggest Minister Mthethwa get his own house in order before
    > harassing the people who pay his salary," GOSA executive member
    > Brett Nortje is quoted by SAPA.
    >
    > The Minister is concerned about such blatant naivety from GOSA
    > as it may lead to unnecessary confusion within society. It is
    > against this background that the Ministry would like to set the
    > record straight and further ensure that any law-abiding
    > citizen, partners and stakeholders in the fight against crime,
    > are not misled on issues surrounding compensation, the
    > destruction of firearms and the Amnesty.
    >
    > "In relation to the issue of compensation, the Firearms Control
    > Act, 2000, is clear about the circumstances under which
    > compensation shall not be paid. In respect of firearms and
    > ammunition forfeited in terms of the Act; if the relevant
    > license was cancelled, as a result thereof that there was
    > non-compliance with the Act or a condition of the license or
    > permit, or where the holder of the license became unfit or was
    > declared unfit to possess a firearm," stated Minister Mthethwa.
    >
    >
    >
    > Compensation is not payable where the firearms and ammunition
    > was seized from a person to whom no license was issued, or the
    > person was otherwise unlawfully in possession of the firearm. A
    > lawful owner of a firearm also has no claim against a firearm
    > if it was recovered by the South African Police Service (SAPS)
    > after having been stolen from a lawful owner as a result of his
    > or her negligence. The Act also provides that no compensation
    > is payable where firearms or ammunition are destroyed by the
    > State.
    >
    >
    >
    > "Section 137 of the Act provides for compensation to be
    > considered under certain circumstances. The Act is clear on
    > only one instance where compensation must be paid: that is in a
    > case of forfeited firearms where the Registrar decides to keep
    > the firearms for certain reasons for the State. This could be
    > because the firearm has a hereditary value or is needed for
    > training purposes by the Forensics Laboratory."
    >
    >
    >
    > A person who has had their license repealed under the old
    > repealed Act, or who does not wish to retain their licensed
    > firearm has a number of options open to them:
    >
    > . the person could choose to sell their firearm to a licensed
    > person or firearm dealership
    >
    > . a person who wanted to keep firearms purely for sentimental
    > reasons could apply for permission to de-activate a firearm and
    > once permission is obtained, such de-activation had to be
    > performed at their own expense
    >
    > . they could chose to forfeit the firearm to the State for
    > destruction and where the destruction costs are then borne by
    > the State
    >
    >
    >
    > The choice on how to dispose of a firearm is therefore with the
    > owner, as long as the conditions of the Firearms Control Act
    > are adhered to as cited above.
    >
    >
    >
    > The judgment in the Justice Alliance of South Africa and
    > Another v the Minister of Safety and Security referred to by
    > GOSA, required the Minister of Police to develop guidelines for
    > the payment of compensation as required by section 137(5) of
    > the Firearms Control Act, 2000.
    >
    >
    >
    > "In the spirit of transparency with all stakeholders (including
    > GOSA) in the whole process, we decided not only to develop and
    > file such guidelines, but also publicize these in the
    > Government Gazette of 10 November 2009, prior to filing the
    > guidelines with the Court. It is therefore surprising that an
    > organization such as GOSA would plead ignorance relating to
    > both the contents and the status of such guidelines,"
    > emphasized the Minister.
    >
    >
    >
    > With regard to the comments made by GOSA regarding the
    > destruction of the firearms, a notice was published in the
    > Government Gazette of 14 December 2009 informing the public
    > about an intention to destroy firearms (most of which had been
    > stored by SAPS for more than 2 years). The public was invited
    > to make representations by 6 January 2010 as to specific
    > firearms that the State should not destroy.
    >
    >
    >
    > In line with the Ministry's stakeholder engagement process, at
    > a meeting held on the 11th January 2010 with a number of
    > different gun-owner associations, it was agreed the deadline
    > for representation would be extended until 13 January 2010 to
    > allow verification. During the period 14 December 2009 and 13
    > January 2010 a number of representations were made regarding
    > specific firearms. Such firearms were then withdrawn from the
    > stock to be destroyed pending a final decision on the status of
    > the firearms.
    >
    >
    >
    > "It is therefore inconceivable that in a country faced with
    > high levels of violent gun-related crimes, that GOSA or any
    > other responsible gun owner would oppose the destruction,
    > permanent removal of excess and forfeited firearms from
    > circulation," adds the Minister.
    >
    >
    >
    > GOSA's attempt to discredit the Amnesty appears to be a last
    > ditch attempt to get public attention. It should be publicly
    > noted that prior to the commencement of the Firearms Amnesty
    > period, GOSA pre-empted the failure of the process, and had
    > attempted to influence and lobby other groups without success,
    > to support their segregated viewpoint.
    >
    >
    >
    > "The Amnesty is in full swing and we remain confident that it
    > will be a success. As evidenced during the recent destruction
    > event held in Vereeniging, through public endorsement, support
    > and working together with various organisations such as
    > Business Against Crime South Africa, Gun Free South Africa and
    > even the South African Hunters and Game Conservation
    > Association, we are all working towards the same vision: to
    > make our country safer," concluded the Minister.
    >
    >
    >
    > Ends/
    >
    >
    >
    > For enquiries, please contact:
    >
    > Zweli Mnisi, Ministerial Spokesperson 082 045 4024
    >
    >
    >
    > Issued by the Ministry of Police.
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

  2. #2
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Hey, Nutty!

    Denial isn''t rebuttal. Just because you deny the import of the judgement of the Cape High Court (where you CONCEDED all of our points), does not mean you have a valid (or indeed any) argument.

    You have bulldozed through this Amnesty in dishonest denial of the judgement of Acting Judge President Traverso.

    You are in blatant and egregious contempt of that court.

    You deserve to be incarcerated!
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

  3. #3
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    From the press release:
    "Section 137 of the Act provides for compensation to be
    considered under certain circumstances. The Act is clear on
    only one instance where compensation must be paid: that is in a
    case of forfeited firearms where the Registrar decides to keep
    the firearms for certain reasons for the State.
    This could be
    because the firearm has a hereditary value or is needed for
    training purposes by the Forensics Laboratory."

    From the FCA:
    137 Application for compensation
    (1) A person whose firearm has been surrendered or forfeited to the State in circumstances other than those referred to in sections 134, 135 and 136 may apply to the Registrar for compensation in respect of that firearm in the prescribed form.
    (2) On receipt of an application for compensation made in terms of this section, the Registrar must-
    (a) decide whether or not compensation is payable in terms of this Chapter;
    (b) if compensation is payable, attempt to agree with the applicant on the amount of compensation to be paid; and
    (c) if compensation is payable, but no compensation is agreed upon, determine the amount of compensation to be paid.
    (3) An applicant for compensation may appeal against a decision of the Registrar made in terms of subsection (2) (c).
    (4) On receipt of an appeal lodged in terms of subsection (3) the Appeal Board must-
    (a) hear the applicant and the Registrar; and
    (b) determine the amount of compensation to be paid.
    (5) The Minister must, with the approval of the Minister of Finance, establish guidelines for the payment of compensation, taking into account the-
    (a) financial constraints on the State and its ability to meet actual and anticipated claims for compensation; and
    (b) interests of persons who have applied or may in the future apply for compensation.
    (6) The guidelines referred to in subsection (5) bind-
    (a) the Registrar when he or she agrees or determines compensation in terms of subsection (2); and
    (b) the Appeal Board when it determines compensation in terms of subsection (4).
    (7) A person who is not satisfied with the amount of compensation or the time or manner of payment as determined by the Appeal Board, may approach a court to determine the amount, the time and the manner of payment of the compensation.

    Are the Ministers advisers reading from the same act? or what am I missing?

  4. #4
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    Are the Ministers advisers reading from the same act? or what am I missing?
    Yeah. I believe he is either being incredibly badly advised... or is pushing the party line inspite of the advice!
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

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    Paul, I would say the latter. That is what they have always done. In spite of all advice to the contrary they still went ahead with the FCA. We have been proven right but they are still in denial.

    Sean
    Pain is just weakness leaving the body.

  6. #6

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    Me thinks the minister is also confusing GOSA with SAGA from the following extract:

    "GOSA's attempt to discredit the Amnesty appears to be a last
    > ditch attempt to get public attention. It should be publicly
    > noted that prior to the commencement of the Firearms Amnesty
    > period, GOSA pre-empted the failure of the process
    , and had
    > attempted to influence and lobby other groups without success,
    > to support their segregated viewpoint."

    Was it not SAGA that launched the court case just before the FCA came into operation?

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    Rudes, give the man a break. He is only the Minister of Police and you cannot expect him to actually have a clue of what going on.

    Sean.
    Pain is just weakness leaving the body.

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    User Paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudes View Post
    Me thinks the minister is also confusing GOSA with SAGA from the following extract:

    "GOSA's attempt to discredit the Amnesty appears to be a last
    > ditch attempt to get public attention. It should be publicly
    > noted that prior to the commencement of the Firearms Amnesty
    > period, GOSA pre-empted the failure of the process
    , and had
    > attempted to influence and lobby other groups without success,
    > to support their segregated viewpoint."

    Was it not SAGA that launched the court case just before the FCA came into operation?
    Akshully, it WAS GOSA that whipped them with the Business Day article ;-{)}
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

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    Nutty never gets the chance to see anything arond him, poor guy. From his car with black windows he can't enjoy his ride/ view. Whn he steps out o his car he is surrounded by 50 blue uniforms so has no clue as to what's around him.
    sleep when you're dead

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