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  1. #461
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    Default Re: You've been Made (Images)

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    Police/security, jip have seen those.

    We don't discuss them here, what about private gun owners, people who illegally carry open, like in all the photos normally posted here.
    If the statements made by members are true then incidents should be everywhere, that is why I ask, are they?
    Possibly not all that often, but once is once too many.

    Besides the legal and stupidity factors of open carry course.

  2. #462
    Member Messor's Avatar
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    Default Re: You've been Made (Images)

    I am a person that likes data, real data brings truth to a discussion, and another thing I know for a fact is that if something is repeated enough it becomes fact, not my preferred type of data.

    So I hear this statement a lot, someone who carries open is a soft target, a drive through, look obviously I don’t carry open but to myself I think this is just something we are saying without data, something we have said enough times to believe it.

    I sure am not going to mess with someone who I identify is armed, some criminals are stupid and brazen I get that, but for the rest I believe it deters them.

    If someone here have real data on the subject(not opinions ) I would appreciate it, would probably come from the states however as we don’t have such laws.
    "It's not the dying part that scares me, it's the not living."

  3. #463
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    Default Re: You've been Made (Images)

    I know of one definite case in the late 1990's in Mossel Bay, a kid grabbed a gun from a man, carrying without concealing, in a bakery and ran off with it.

  4. #464
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    I am a person that likes data, real data brings truth to a discussion, and another thing I know for a fact is that if something is repeated enough it becomes fact, not my preferred type of data.

    So I hear this statement a lot, someone who carries open is a soft target, a drive through, look obviously I don’t carry open but to myself I think this is just something we are saying without data, something we have said enough times to believe it.

    I sure am not going to mess with someone who I identify is armed, some criminals are stupid and brazen I get that, but for the rest I believe it deters them.

    If someone here have real data on the subject(not opinions ) I would appreciate it, would probably come from the states however as we don’t have such laws.
    Numerous cases in the US. No one keeps track of it here.
    "Learning only occurs after repetitive ,demoralizing failures!"

    Pat Rogers (RIP)

  5. #465
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    Default Re: You've been Made (Images)

    Messor, I only have relative extensive data of Farm Attacks as I am involved in the whole screw up of it. There is no info in the data describing if the victim was carrying or concealed if the victims own gun was used on him. I presume in a Farm Attack scenario where most of the time the attackers has inside info beforehand that they know if the victims are carrying or not. Concealment or not thus a non-event. I carry concealed, but surely all the farm workers know I do carry. When working with people in fields and doing farm work they will see that you carry and then everyone knows. Short answer - No data as such for Farm Attacks. Might be something to consider, but I doubt has any effect.

  6. #466
    Moderator Skaaphaas's Avatar
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    Default Re: You've been Made (Images)

    I’ve seen two videos taken in Jhb CBD where 6 guys would attack a victim. One person each would take a limb, another chokes the victim and the 6th relieves him of his belongings. In both instances the guys were targeted for their firearms.
    Not all who wander are lost.

  7. #467

    Default Re: You've been Made (Images)

    If a person / group of people try to disarm you how do you retaliate ?

  8. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    How many times have this happened, I ask because I see a lot of people do it yet I cant remember a single article on gunsite referring to such scenario.
    I have read about one instance where a person was stabbed in the kidney to obtain his firearm.

  9. #469
    Member Messor's Avatar
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    Default Re: You've been Made (Images)

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoons View Post
    Messor, I only have relative extensive data of Farm Attacks as I am involved in the whole screw up of it. There is no info in the data describing if the victim was carrying or concealed if the victims own gun was used on him. I presume in a Farm Attack scenario where most of the time the attackers has inside info beforehand that they know if the victims are carrying or not. Concealment or not thus a non-event. I carry concealed, but surely all the farm workers know I do carry. When working with people in fields and doing farm work they will see that you carry and then everyone knows. Short answer - No data as such for Farm Attacks. Might be something to consider, but I doubt has any effect.

    I would definitely not carry open in a city environment, simply because of the unknowns, too much close proximity to unknowns. But that in itself is a problem, open carry or not, so I do the logical thing, I avoid bigger cities and crowded places all together.

    On a farm, I doubt there is a farm worker out there that doesn’t know the status of his employer, nor people gathering info on possible victims, and that in itself makes the carry position irrelevant, since hitting someone over the head when he is concealed carrying or open makes no difference. The thing is we dress around our firearms, and people need two hands to draw, one to lift and the other to draw. One common feature in rural skirmishes is the fact that you often read about physical fights before any shooting takes place. This I believe is but the result of being ambushed, not being ready for an attack. But still, is it not easier drawing during a physical altercation with one hand rather than both?

    As said I don’t know the answers, merely wondering if the truth is properly reflected by the opinions given here, or whether that being said is just something being repeated.

    I do have one personal opinion on the matter, and unfortunately that comes from conversations with people that open carry, I think despite their carry method the worrying factor should rather be if they are capable with their weapons in the first place, because many of them shows a severe lack of knowledge on the subject to start with.
    "It's not the dying part that scares me, it's the not living."

  10. #470

    Default Re: You've been Made (Images)

    Quote Originally Posted by Messor View Post
    How many times have this happened, I ask because I see a lot of people do it yet I cant remember a single article on gunsite referring to such scenario.
    I doubt anyone really keeps records of this. The stories in which it has supposedly happened, always seem to be from way back when, can't be verified, or there are too few details to determine if open carry was the the problem, or just poor weapon retention.

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