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  1. #21
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    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    Quote Originally Posted by Ds J View Post
    I have a suspicion that my S21 for a self defence pistol was declined. If it is true I am willing to help with the court case.

    Edit: just learned that it was approved on the 4th of November.


    Congrats!

    I bet your motivation was watertight ? Did you use any case numbers to prove it's a matter of urgency ?

    Reason I ask is I need to help a friend with an S21, they were held at gun point a while back and I'd like to include this with the case number in his S21 app.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    DRD, please PM me an email adress? I'll send you the motivation. I basically built a case around our personal circumstances and occurences. There were several SAPS case numbers (personal, neighbours and family) in the apps.

  3. #23

    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    Quote Originally Posted by mozee View Post
    MTTSS, I sold my s13 firearm to purchase a G43. Circumstances still remain the same in terms of threats traveling to / from place of work. I'm a consultant on the road most of the time. Also have a business I manager after hours from 6pm to 6am although that probably takes up about 10% of my time during a month. If I can motivate as such in much more detail and and send to TEAM GOSA for review I would like to be a candidate. May I send my motivation to Issueswithcfr@gmail.com for perusal?
    Mozee, my view is that you are entitled to lodge a section 21 application, without it being seen as an potential abuse of the system. Arguably, CFR has already agreed to the fact that you need a firearm for self defence. If your situation remained the same, or has worsened, as explained in the initial section 13 application, then by nature one can argue that it would be irrational for CFR to expect you to wait for an unspecified amount of time, or even 90 days, for a license to be issued. So you are welcome to send your motivation through to the TEAM at Issueswithcfr@gmail.com, for perusal and possibly to make it even better. Then let's see what happens, and take it from there!

  4. #24

    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    Quote Originally Posted by phant1m View Post
    @MTTSS Ok so my situation arguably doesn't meet those standards. I want to use it for IPSC as soon as possible, as I have seen my shooting dramatically improve at club level when shooting with the Shadow (a friends at the club). I only felt that a S21 gives it to me sooner to practice and train on it as want to shoot club and leagues in the coming months. Thanks for all the information though. Last question, do you think my case for a S21 permit to be issued to me, is strong enough, having regard to the need to get access to my sports firearm, a.s.a.p., in order to train and prepare for club and leagues shoots?
    This is my personal take on the matter, and I stand open to be persuaded otherwise:

    I think the what the Act had in mind, was that licenses be issued without undue delay, practically speaking in no more than 90 (ordinary) days.

    In practice, that has unfortunately not been the case always, although obviously there are many examples of licenses been granted when everything runs smoothly, well within those time limits, or rather, "targets".

    So the problem comes in when one does not know how long it is actually going to take for the license to be issued. Will it be 30 days, 3 months, 6 months, 11 months, 2 years, 2 1/2 years (seriously)?

    Under those circumstances any person can be forgiven for applying for a temporary authorization in the mean time!

    If only CFR could fix the delays with the issuing of licenses, then I believe it would reduce their total backlog and free up capacity, because then there will be less people applying for a temporary authorization, in other words, they could then use a great deal of the manpower that has been delegated to deal with section 21 applications, to deal with license applications.

    Section 21 was written into the Act to cater for any person, including foreigners, to be issued with a temporary authorization to possess a firearm.

    The courts have interpreted the section well (said with respect), having regard to the Act and the Regulations, and have confirmed that section 21 caters for cases with inherent urgency.

    There are pointers in the Regulations, to the effect that 7 days is what the legislature had in mind for the processing and issuing of these permits.

    Currently there is an argument doing the rounds, apparently emanating from CFR, that the Act should have excluded citizens from the benefits of section 21, and that it was only meant to be of assistance to foreign visitors, say for hunting and self defence issues. And as such we have observed a reluctance to issue these permits, as of lately, or at least since about March this year in some cases, in particular also the case we initially took to court, with our Class Action initiative.

    I do not agree with that view. As a matter of fact, the Act also does not state that you even need to have a license application submitted, when applying for a temporary authorization to possess that specific firearm. And, if CFR was of that view, they should have either not consented to earlier court orders that in effect confirmed this position, or they should have taken it on appeal to the SCA.

    But the actual worry is that the current trend by CFR to refuse to accept applications (by some DFO's) in terms of section 21, or of CFR to refuse the applications itself, has more to it. Almost as if they expect an immanent change in legislation, and has starting to act in accordance with that position. In particular as far as semi - autos are concerned, but not only that: the best motivation for a self defence license (or any license) and temporary authorization that I have seen to date, where a very good case was made out, was drafted by a lady herself, and she was declined a section 21 permit. We have followed up on that case, and expect a positive result soon.

    So, to try and answer your question, in summary:

    Feel free to apply for your section 21 permit for your sports gun.

    But make very sure that you cross all your t's and dot all your i's.

    And take a lot of trouble to make out a case of your continuous progress in the sport, and the handicap and prejudice you will suffer, should a temporary authorization not be issued. And attach the proof in the form of score sheets, etc. Perhaps an affidavit by your club chairman confirming what you have said.

    I don't think wishy washy stuff will currently work here at this point in time. It will have to be solid. Place yourself in the position of the judge hearing the urgent application (if you have to go to court after your refusal for a section 21 app): they don't take kindly to people taking a fat chance, and as a matter of fact, if your case is dubious, you will not likely find a reputable legal team willing to stake their reputation and more on the line, for taking your case forward. That is just a matter of fact.

    And then, importantly, make specific reference to the fact that there is still no firm indication as to how long the license application will take to finalize, and that you cannot be expected to wait indefinitely for a license, hence your application for a temporary permit. You may very well make reference to the fact that some people are still waiting for more than 8 months or whatever, that some people have to re-apply because CFR lost their applications, etc.

    This argument, to the effect that there is no firm proof of time lines for license applications to be processed in practice, will place CFR in a bit of a conundrum, if the matter has to go to court, for it is the truth.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    Quote Originally Posted by MTTSS View Post
    Mozee, my view is that you are entitled to lodge a section 21 application, without it being seen as an potential abuse of the system. Arguably, CFR has already agreed to the fact that you need a firearm for self defence. If your situation remained the same, or has worsened, as explained in the initial section 13 application, then by nature one can argue that it would be irrational for CFR to expect you to wait for an unspecified amount of time, or even 90 days, for a license to be issued. So you are welcome to send your motivation through to the TEAM at Issueswithcfr@gmail.com, for perusal and possibly to make it even better. Then let's see what happens, and take it from there!
    Thank you MTTSS, I will finalize my motivation and send to the email address for review.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    Still waiting on mine, will update

  7. #27
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    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    Do you guys have the number to call to find out?

  8. #28

    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    Ive so far in the last 4 years had 3 x S21's approved.
    All 3 I motivated I need it for sport use to compete.
    I handed in my Club score sheets showing participation.
    Explained i sold my current competing firearm.
    And included a calendar showing up coming events I want to shoot in.

    All 3 were approved. Roughly took 2-4 weeks max. The 4 weeks one was during the post office strike last year. And Provincial could not courier it up with speedservices. But sent it with the normal truck.

    I have handed in 1 on Friday as well. For a Bolt action rifle. My reason being. Im on leave from 18 Dec to 13 Jan. Which is our companies closing period and our annual leave. And I am going to visit family on sheep farms in Laingsburg area the first week in January. Where I would really like to use this rifle for hunting predators who kill the sheep. And that this caliber is ideally a predator hunting caliber and not a larger more hunting caliber.
    Also explained that currently applications take close to 6 months. And that would even put way past middle of year to competitively use it at range for 2016 year.

    Will see what they decide.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    Quote Originally Posted by longranger View Post
    Do you guys have the number to call to find out?
    See this thread for numbers : http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...IER-ASSISTANCE .

    When I phoned at the beggining of the year, I had to phone a couple of times to get through.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: S21 (temporary) license applications

    Quote Originally Posted by DRD View Post
    See this thread for numbers : http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...IER-ASSISTANCE .

    When I phoned at the beggining of the year, I had to phone a couple of times to get through.
    Thanks will do

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