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  1. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by JS4 View Post
    Anybody who thinks along the lines of "they want to take it all away so we must go to them with reasonable restrictions/limits and compromise so that we still have some rights" need to go take a long, hard look at the battle for Afrikaans at Stellenbosch University.That strategy worked so well there.
    Confrontational politics. What have they got to lose? Who must compromise?

  2. #112

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hein22 View Post
    I know the topic has taken a diff route but I'd like to explain the position I'm in at the moment:

    I have a Section 13 9mm and Section 15 45ACP (pending approval). My wife does not want to EDC but that being said spends most of her time at home so she can still have easy access to it even if she does not carry on person. I'm often away over weekends and don't want to leave her without a means to protect herself and the kids. I have two options:

    1. Get her to go for competency and get her her own pistol, buy a seperate safe with unique keys (as she is not allowed to use mine), and it sets me back an unnecessary +/- R10k.
    2. Get dual license for the 9mm which I can then leave with her when I'm not there, carry the 45 and we can still store firearms together and I save myself R10k.

    If what MTTS is saying is correct, I do not have option 2. To me it is stupid to now have to own 3 diff pistols when two will suffice. For the time being I will be going with option two and should something happen where I will need to explain myself this will be my reasoning as well. To me, logically, I do believe the events surrounding a shooting will be much more important than whether it happened with a section 13 or 15 or 16 firearm.
    In any event, she needs to do the competency, if she will be getting a license (or dual license).

    As things now stand, you will in any event have to get yourself another safe for the .45, cause if she is not also a dual licensee on that firearm, she "should not have access thereto".

    What we (?) are saying, is: Why should the law force you to pass your desire to own another firearm, that you want to use for self defense, off as a desire to participate in a particular level of sport shooting, when all you really want to do, is own another firearm for self defense?

  3. #113
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    I understand, but why should the law force you to limit a handgun to either self defense or sport shooting? I can understand if they frown upon a 30-06 being used a self defense weapon but a handgun is a handgun and you should be able to use it for sport shooting and Self defense regardless.

    What I'm trying to say is that I should be able to use all three my Handguns for either sport shooting or self defense and they should only be licensed as a handgun, not S13 S15 or S16.

  4. #114
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hein22 View Post
    I can understand if they frown upon a 30-06 being used a self defense weapon...
    Why!?A few years back a taxidermist used a .375 to defend against robbers, quite effectively!
    [b]Be ready for anything, and if his head is not at least two meters away from the body, do not 'assume' he is dead and out of the fight.[/b] [I]- Ikor[/I]

  5. #115
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by JS4 View Post
    Why!?A few years back a taxidermist used a .375 to defend against robbers, quite effectively!
    Think man! I'm not saying it is illegal, but it is definitely not the norm to use a 30-06 as a self defense weapon and you are going to have a hard time motivating it like that.

  6. #116

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hein22 View Post
    I understand, but why should the law force you to limit a handgun to either self defense or sport shooting? I can understand if they frown upon a 30-06 being used a self defense weapon but a handgun is a handgun and you should be able to use it for sport shooting and Self defense regardless.

    What I'm trying to say is that I should be able to use all three my Handguns for either sport shooting or self defense and they should only be licensed as a handgun, not S13 S15 or S16.
    Yes, and then you get the different requirements of those sections as well, that need to be satisfied before you will get a license.

    Currently, you need to prove a "need" for section 13, as per the letter of the law. And then a practice has developed whereby some DFO's at least (ultra vires and illegally) refuse to accept applications in terms of section 13, if it is not accompanied by crime stats, for instance.

    We cannot exclude the possibility that we may work ourselves into a position, where we can actually improve at least certain parts of the FCA, whilst they have stirred the issue up in any event, with their proposed amendments.

    The "benefit" of the different categories of license holders comes in where you argue the case of the different categories of owners, and where you organize them.

    It's more than convenient to have the dedicated sport shooters organized under section 16. It helps when you advance their case to the SAPS, government, and the broader public. Then you are not confusing the issues.

    It is also convenient when you argue the case of the self defense owners, that still by far form the overwhelming majority of firearms owners out there.

    The same principles apply for the collectors, hunters, and business purposes (security for instance).

    That camping off has served us well in our efforts, but to the point where we need the NFA to speak collectively on behalf of all those organizations / factions.

    Some of us may also argue that we don't want to be forced to be using our sports guns for self defense, because those sports guns take a hammering with the amounts of rounds they see through, we want something dedicated for self defense, that will be less likely to break due to the hammering otherwise received.

    So we won't mind being "forced" to get a similar Glock 34 for self defense, whilst we have one for sport shooting already, and vice versa.

  7. #117
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    My point of view.

    If you are proven competent to own a firearm, and have the required secure storage, then there should be NO limits on how many you may own. I also believe having specific sections is bollocks, because you should be allowed to use ANY of your firearms for SD. There should be NO specific section just for that use case, with it's own specific laws. I have no problem with the registering of said firearms.

  8. #118

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Hi Guys,

    Has anything changed with regards to this post since 2015, has anyone here experienced a different scenario when stopped by SAPS whilst carrying your Sect 16 Handgun ?
    This was a very informative topic

  9. #119
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/guno...60479494265087

    The PDF (can't upload here) on the GOSA FB Group is the latest Directive from SAPS Legal telling SAPS officers to leave you the hell alone no matter what licence you have.

    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

  10. #120

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Thanks for the link , I will download the pdf file now to my cell and print a copy or 3

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