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  1. #21

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Regulation 86(11)(a) says that firearms, other than firearms for which a SD license has been issued, must be stored unloaded.

    And that a collector may keep one loaded f/a in the safe for SD.

    So, what is the Registrar saying now?

    You should use your section 15 for SD, and you may not apply for a section 13 (rights being taken away), and if it is in the safe, you must be further handicapped by it being unloaded.

    The provisions contained in this regulation are strong pointers to the effect that these section 15, 16 and 17 firearms were not intended to be used for SD, apart from the specific exception.

    There is no express provision to the effect that you can carry the section 15, 16 or 17 firearm around loaded.

    Viewed in context of the provisions of the regulation, it does not seem to be the intention.

    But let us ask the following question:

    Do forum members now feel that they it will be OK if they carry their section 16 and 17 firearms around loaded (albeit in a bag), if they feel a little under - gunned with their pistols issued in terms of section 13, say to the mall, in the light of the increased amount of mall robberies and terrorist attacks?

  2. #22
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by MTTSS View Post
    Regulation 86(11)(a) says that firearms, other than firearms for which a SD license has been issued, must be stored unloaded.

    And that a collector may keep one loaded f/a in the safe for SD.

    So, what is the Registrar saying now?

    You should use your section 15 for SD, and you may not apply for a section 13 (rights being taken away), and if it is in the safe, you must be further handicapped by it being unloaded.

    The provisions contained in this regulation are strong pointers to the effect that these section 15, 16 and 17 firearms were not intended to be used for SD, apart from the specific exception.

    There is no express provision to the effect that you can carry the section 15, 16 or 17 firearm around loaded.

    Viewed in context of the provisions of the regulation, it does not seem to be the intention.

    But let us ask the following question:

    Do forum members now feel that they it will be OK if they carry their section 16 and 17 firearms around loaded (albeit in a bag), if they feel a little under - gunned with their pistols issued in terms of section 13, say to the mall, in the light of the increased amount of mall robberies and terrorist attacks?
    FFS!

    If it is not explicitly described as being 'not allowed', then by logical conclusion (and by virtue of the our implementation of law) it is then allowed... because it has NOT been specifically forbidden.

    I remember now why everyone bitches about this subject being beaten like a dead horse when all of these arguments and discussion points have been covered, explained and debated ad-nausium, and effectively been dealt with by matter experts in the legal profession.

    If the FA is in your safe, it must be unloaded. If in the boot of your car, in a bag, it MUST BE UNLOADED. If you are carrying the gun in a holster on your waist, it can have one in the pipe. That is actually what 'EDC' implies.

    Your arguments are thus invalid, and pointedly, wrong.

    P.S. I carry my Section 16 pistol as an EDC piece 99% of the time... and shock-horror, is has a round in the pipe.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Just to add my experience: my very first firearms license that was APPROVED as a sec15 license was motivated as my self defense firearm and for occassional sport shooting. So cfr basically gave me permission to use my sec15 firearm as a self defense firearm.

  4. #24

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    The S15/16 gun can be used for a lawful purpose. That lawful purpose is not defined as "only for target shooting at the range".

    The potential scenarios of lawful use are virtually unlimited.

    For example, if you are handling your gun at home, you could well wish to test whether it is in working order by checking if it can properly chamber a round or not. If someone happens to break into your house at that moment, you are not required to first unload the gun and then load it again to defend yourself.

    No, you can go ahead and engage the home invader with your already loaded gun.

    So if it could be loaded lawfully in that situation - away from the range - why could it not logically be lawfully loaded in a host of other situations? As long as it is not loaded while in storage, which is expressly prohibited by the law?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Brilliant. That should pretty much CLOSE this debate.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by MTTSS View Post
    Regulation 86(11)(a) says that firearms, other than firearms for which a SD license has been issued, must be stored unloaded.

    And that a collector may keep one loaded f/a in the safe for SD.

    So, what is the Registrar saying now?

    You should use your section 15 for SD, and you may not apply for a section 13 (rights being taken away), and if it is in the safe, you must be further handicapped by it being unloaded.

    The provisions contained in this regulation are strong pointers to the effect that these section 15, 16 and 17 firearms were not intended to be used for SD, apart from the specific exception.

    There is no express provision to the effect that you can carry the section 15, 16 or 17 firearm around loaded.

    Viewed in context of the provisions of the regulation, it does not seem to be the intention.

    But let us ask the following question:

    Do forum members now feel that they it will be OK if they carry their section 16 and 17 firearms around loaded (albeit in a bag), if they feel a little under - gunned with their pistols issued in terms of section 13, say to the mall, in the light of the increased amount of mall robberies and terrorist attacks?
    Nowhere in the Act does it state that I may sit on my left ass-cheek while carrying my firearm, and it also doesn't say that I'm allowed to eat dinner with it in on my hip. WHAT TO DO!?!?!

    EDIT: MTTSS, don't you have a legal background and aren't you part of the guys helping GOSA sort out CFR issues?

  7. #27
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Also to add the argument that inevitably comes up in all of the threads dealing with this topic: I have shot thousands of rounds through my Sec 13 firearm, not one of them in SD, while the law does not make "express provision" for me to use this firearm on a shooting range when my life is not in danger.

  8. #28

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomander View Post
    To the legal eagles, is this letter deemed to come from the Registrar himself, and can it be seen as an official, definitive confirmation of how the law should be interpreted?
    Nope.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  9. #29

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Nope.
    OK, thanks.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.



    I've been on this site for much too long. Time for a change.

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