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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!


  2. #22
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    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!

    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    I have never understood the fascination that the SAPS instructors have with making students reassemble guns under the clock. What is the purpose? Cleaning guns in the middle of the gunfight? Or for the eventuality that your gun suddenly springs apart? I guess doing that and taking video is easier than actually teaching students how to shoot though.

    Also, from the bird shit on his shoulder he is a captain - so he probably rides a desk, perhaps even in a support role like logistics or IT.

    He may also have been trained on the PX4, but been given a Z88 for qualification.

    That said, the video is shocking. Not because of the students failure, but because of the instructors.

    These instructors have a duty to transfer skills (which the apparently have) to their students so that the latter may be able to defend their lives whilst on duty. They are not teaching a "how to use MS Outlook" or "proper pen and pencil organisation" class but a fucking survival skill.

    They have failed miserably and had the sack to film their failure for publication on social media.

    They should be fucking embarrassed.

    I totally agree with this statement.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!

    I've witnessed one of the saps' "high risk" units' training/practise at the range a while back.

    I was expecting to maybe learn something but instead left in fear of getting shot by those idiots!
    I saw them drop not 1, but 2 R5 rifles with mags in from a table by "accident" while loading mags.

    Sweeping and handing guns to each other on the firing line.
    Instructor and students were joking and playing around etc.

    When they run out of ammo they just turn around without clearing their guns etc.

    It was shocking!

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!

    this was a trained police officer in a country where the police are armed and where there is a high armed crime rate. He must have received basic training in firearms and thus should have some idea of how firearms operate. From the video it is obvious that he is clueless. attempting to put the spring into the barrel???
    Even if he had never seen this weapon before he should if he was properly basic trained have some idea of putting it together.
    If this example is the rule and as some of your post suggest firearms training in the SAP needs a major overhaul.

  5. #25
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    Jan 2011
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    George - Western Cape
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    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!

    Ok so I had a long chat with a cop who I trust yesterday.

    He put some perspective on it.

    They have many internal transfers from example the SANDF and its highly likely that she might have been a Captain in for example the SANDF Medical services and transfered with the same rank. Thus the handgun skills is lacking.

    Secondly, her training might have been on a PX4 or a Rap40 and the platform is obviously different.

  6. #26
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    Aug 2012
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    South Africa
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    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!

    Kakuli - Is he a gunsmith or a police officer?

    The cops have shitty carry conditions, but condition butterscotch isn't one of them.
    While this is not ideal, I don't see why this is such a big issue.

  7. #27
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    Feb 2011
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    Under the stars out there...
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    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!

    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    I have never understood the fascination that the SAPS instructors have with making students reassemble guns under the clock. What is the purpose? Cleaning guns in the middle of the gunfight? Or for the eventuality that your gun suddenly springs apart? I guess doing that and taking video is easier than actually teaching students how to shoot though.

    Also, from the bird shit on his shoulder he is a captain - so he probably rides a desk, perhaps even in a support role like logistics or IT.

    He may also have been trained on the PX4, but been given a Z88 for qualification.

    That said, the video is shocking. Not because of the students failure, but because of the instructors.

    These instructors have a duty to transfer skills (which the apparently have) to their students so that the latter may be able to defend their lives whilst on duty. They are not teaching a "how to use MS Outlook" or "proper pen and pencil organisation" class but a fucking survival skill.

    They have failed miserably and had the sack to film their failure for publication on social media.

    They should be fucking embarrassed.
    A mate of mine who does firearm training for the SAP told me a while ago that he had some candidates that just couldn't get it right.

    After 3 months of intensive training they were still not competent. He then wrote a letter to the person in
    charge and was summarily told to "put them through" !!!!

    So it may be that the instructor is not necessarily the dick you make him out to be?

  8. #28
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    Nov 2012
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    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!

    I hear and agree with a lot the comments above, But...
    1. If this person has never handled or had a bit of training, what the heck are they doing on the range?
    2. If this person was trained on a different weapon, they would have the basic knowledge of the Barrel, Slide and guide-rod and would not have tried to put the slide on from under the FA or attempted to put the guide rod down the barrel.
    3. Changing over from a, lets say PX4 to A Z88 shouldn't be rocket science. Most parts look the same. The gun logic is the same. I trained mostly on CZ-75. I had shot Berretta's and Z88's, but never had to strip one, until I offered to clean my Pop-in-Law's Berretta. I was sh1t nervous and was worried I would make my name arse in front of him, but figured it out after a couple of seconds and had no issues stripping and reassembling.

  9. #29
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    Jan 2009
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    Rustenburg
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    324

    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!

    The problem here is competence or rather the lack thereof.
    Unless something significant has changed all SAPS students will be trained with all the weapons that they will likely be issued with while in the SAPS College.

    Police officers are no longer issued personal weapons as a matter of course and some literally only handle guns once a year. When they fire 25 rounds through a pistol.

    How competent would you be if you fire 25 rounds a year. How comfortable will you be with a weapon that you received training on say 10 years ago and have fired (and handled) only once a year since then.

    There are big problems in terms of weapons proficiency in the SAPS and it needs to be addressed fast if we want to stop the rate at which police officers are killed.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Is this Officer Suppose to be able to protect me? Seriously!

    There are a lot of valid and a lot of kak comments here.

    The reality that I am not comfortable with is not the use and lack of skills because I prefer to depend on myself where possible.

    The scenario I feel extremely uncomfortable is that when you are stopped at a roadblock (or any place for that matter) where a police officer ask if you have a gun or identified as having a gun on you. Now a police officer takes charge of MY gun to check if the serial number matches with the license card. I carry “hot”, one up, “ready” – whatever you want to call it. I must now feel comfortable? Is this the norm? Is this the exception? How do I verify proficiency level of the police officer? Being the ranking officer does not buy any level of comfort!

    So I understand the comments about training et all but if I board I plane and the captain walks to the cockpit it is fair to assume a level of competency which I do not have to go and verify. Why is this different? This just scares me shitless

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