Gun free zones - another perspective?

**Socrates** · 15-03-2010, 13:29

Let me just first state that I don't like fun free zones, and my ideal is to carry 24/7.

Much has been said on GS about the total uselessness on Gun Free zones, since the criminals do not abide by anything in any case.

I have two questions:

1. Do you consider yourself competent to engage BG's with your firearm in a shopping centre/crowded area - without hitting a bystander?
2. From your last IDPA/IPSC match / range session - how many of the guys you shot with on the day do you consider competent to engage BG's in a crowded area without hitting a bystander?

**BigT** · 15-03-2010, 13:40

1. Far more competant at that than I am at lying on the floor begging for my life and or dying.

2. All but a very very few.

**Analyst** · 15-03-2010, 13:42

I think another important question is: do you have the tactical capability to position yourself such that incoming (and possibly indiscriminate) gunfire is least likely to hit innocent people? Will you have the presence of mind to pick your moment, such that you drop the BGs in rapid succession without a gunfight erupting? You can't just look at it in terms of your own capability, the BG's response is probably more important because they aint gonna be giving much mind to sparing bystanders. Starting a firefight in a restaurant/mall is a hell of a consideration.

To answer: given the correct circumstances - yes.

I don't do much social shooting, but there are a number of people that I would count on.

**ikor** · 15-03-2010, 13:54

The correct answers to your questions are a) 'Maybe' and b) 'It depends'. Have you ever seen a crowd react when shots are fired in its midst? I have and it is pandemonium. Gonna be pretty difficult just finding a target initially, much less engaging one...all the more so while getting your azz and any loved ones with you to hard cover or completely out of the area. 'Course, there won't BE a crowd for very long because those who don't run will either be flat on the floor and / or behind some cover in a few seconds. If things last longer than that, then the dynamics of the situation change, etc.

Can of worms.

**Socrates** · 15-03-2010, 14:04

Originally Posted by ikor

The correct answers to your questions are a) 'Maybe' and b) 'It depends'. Have you ever seen a crowd react when shots are fired in its midst? I have and it is pandemonium. Gonna be pretty difficult just finding a target initially, much less engaging one...all the more so while getting your azz and any loved ones with you to hard cover or completely out of the area. 'Course, there won't BE a crowd for very long because those who don't run will either be flat on the floor and / or behind some cover in a few seconds. If things last longer than that, then the dynamics of the situation change, etc.

Can of worms.

I once witnessed an armed gang rob a cash-in-transit van in a shopping mall parking lot.

People at the immediate location of the heist were flat on the ground, but I was surprised to see large crowds gathering to watch the events unfold. Shot were fired, and one bystander was hit by the BG's. No one seeked cover!

I have no problem engaging a BG that is intent on doing me harm, but I will think twice about engaging a BG in a crowded area just because I have the tools to do so.

**ikor** · 15-03-2010, 14:12

Hah! Well, I must admit that I have not seen a SA crowd react, so maybe they are different. Here, they tend to take off like a flock of chickens!

**shooter** · 15-03-2010, 14:20

Sorry if I don't reply to the exact question but just a thought: if you have the gun with you in the center, you don't HAVE to use it. But if you don't have it you have no choice.

**Paul** · 15-03-2010, 15:58

Take the headshot! Take the headshot...

**shooter** · 15-03-2010, 16:27

Originally Posted by ikor

Hah! Well, I must admit that I have not seen a SA crowd react, so maybe they are different. Here, they tend to take off like a flock of chickens!

Probably trying to pick up some brass for reloading, times are tough.

**Sean Murphy** · 17-03-2010, 15:48

In my opinion the idea is not to be able to engage BG's in every single public encounter that you may witness. The idea is to be able to engage them when you have no choice. When that happens then you must do the best that you can.

Sean.