First time rifle owner!

**fhm3006** · 29-03-2010, 14:12

Oh no .....

...sitting back, chaos inbound....

tik-tok....tik-tok....

Originally Posted by Wismit

If you get a .22, you can even shoot some baboons.
(Just don`t tell anybody on this site about it )(Sarcasm)

But seriouisly, if you have young children or relatives, you must get a .22. That is how they start shooting !!!

**Sakoman** · 29-03-2010, 20:10

Pierre, thanks for the vote of confidence. I am more than happy to share experiences with those who have an interest and/or passion for hunting and rifles. I am mindful that one mans' opinion is often anothers' perceived arrogance and thus choose to share only known facts, either from own experience or research. I know and remember clearly the frustration when I bought my own first rifle and can only hope that Trommel finds (not what I like but) what has worked for me as useful. Please do not be mistaken, I still learn something new every time I hunt.

Safe shooting!

**Animal** · 30-03-2010, 11:33

Hi Trommel
I like a man that is proudly SA but before you make your final choice i would ask you drop by my shop and have a look at the Weatherby Rifles! Like you say the price is good and they come with an accuracy guarantee with a target to prove it! Give me a call on 011-795-1100! Kalahari Arms cc

**umshiniwam** · 30-03-2010, 12:42

Originally Posted by Animal

Hi Trommel
I like a man that is proudly SA but before you make your final choice i would ask you drop by my shop and have a look at the Weatherby Rifles! Like you say the price is good and they come with an accuracy guarantee with a target to prove it! Give me a call on 011-795-1100! Kalahari Arms cc

yes, I should have mentioned that the Weatherby rifles also offer excellent value for money. I am sure that fhm3006 will agree!

**Sakoman** · 30-03-2010, 16:31

Animal, how do the prices between Weatherby and Kimber (which you also stock) compare? Let's say for standard non-magnum calibre rifles, like for example .270, .308 or 30-06. Also, how would you rate the Kimber if Weatherby is the benchmark? It would be interesting to know, as I have read good things about the Kimber rifles in terms of finish, balance, fit (generalised) and out of the box accuracy.

**Dick** · 30-03-2010, 17:29

I agree with the general sentiment that the 30-06 is a better choice. I have a Sako in 308 Win. I am very happy with it but if I were buying again I'd buy 30-06. No, let me correct that, if I were buying just one "do everything" except dangerous game rifle I'd buy 9.3 x 62. Two of my friends, both regular hunters, have them and both use them pretty much to the exclusion of their other rifles. Both say that it takes down game with noticeably more authority than either 308 or 30-06, with the classic heavy bullet moderate velocity formula. It seems not to be generally realised that the 9.3 x 62 bullet is only very slightly smaller than the 375 and MV only 100FPS less than the 375H&H and needs a standard length action while the 375H&H needs a magnum action.

But to focus on the 308 and 30-06. As others have said there is not much difference between them, but the 06 will fire a 180 grain bullet at about the same MV as the 308 will fire a 165 grain. Max bullet weight is also a good bit heavier. It is thus just sufficiently more versatile as to make it the best choice if you want a 30 cal. I'd prefer the 9.3 x 62.

**umshiniwam** · 30-03-2010, 17:37

Originally Posted by Dick

I agree with the general sentiment that the 30-06 is a better choice. I have a Sako in 308 Win. I am very happy with it but if I were buying again I'd buy 30-06. No, let me correct that, if I were buying just one "do everything" except dangerous game rifle I'd buy 9.3 x 62. Two of my friends, both regular hunters, have them and both use them pretty much to the exclusion of their other rifles. Both say that it takes down game with noticeably more authority than either 308 or 30-06, with the classic heavy bullet moderate velocity formula. It seems not to be generally realised that the 9.3 x 62 bullet is only very slightly smaller than the 375 and MV only 100FPS less than the 375H&H and needs a standard length action while the 375H&H needs a magnum action.

But to focus on the 308 and 30-06. As others have said there is not much difference between them, but the 06 will fire a 180 grain bullet at about the same MV as the 308 will fire a 165 grain. Max bullet weight is also a good bit heavier. It is thus just sufficiently more versatile as to make it the best choice if you want a 30 cal. I'd prefer the 9.3 x 62.

I have a .375 H&H CZ 550 and I consider the 9.3x62 as good and if I were to buy again I may consider the 9.3x2 as it is designed for a standard length action. I was recently convinced of the .375 H&H's versatility when I used it to to hunt blesbuck two weeks ago and comfortably made a 200m shot on one buck and took three others all single shot kills.

Something to consider though is the cost of ammunition. I cannot speak for the cost of 9.3x62 ammo but I would guess a .375 H&H round costs 175% if not double that of a .30-06 round.

For a one-rifle man I would still suggest the .30-06 for this reason, unless of course cost is no consideration, as one can shoot it more often.

**Animal** · 30-03-2010, 17:38

Hi Sakoman
The rifle that i was thinking of for Trommel was a Weatherby Vanguard. The rifles start at R9038.00! I think the rifle’s that you are thinking of that is in competition with the Kimber’s are the Mark V rifles from Weatherby. They both start around the same prices which are about R25000.00.
In that league of rifle both are very good but i still have a soft spot for the Weatherby with the much stronger action in the Mark V and the guaranteed accuracy that you don’t get from Kimber. Don’t get me wrong! Like you said the Kimber is a great rifle and you will most likely not get a bad apple from Kimber, but when it comes to Weatherby you have that guarantee. J . One thing that i do want to make clear that with the Weatherby guarantee is that it is a cut off! In other words it will never shoot more than the cut off! Like with the standard Vanguards that i think Trommel will look at has a cut off of 1.5 inches at 100 yards! Like most things i think it just covers Weatherby. I have seen the black Synthetic Vanguard rifle at R9038.00 shoot well under an inch at 100 meters and keep doing that season in and out!
For him a great rifle at a great price!
If you want to Sakoman, any time you are in JHB you may drop by the shop and i will gladly show you the different rifles! A guy with a clear love for good rifles like you is always welcome in the shopJ.
So to get to the conclusion, apples with apples both very good, finish, handling and fit very good, but Weatherby has the edge with the action and the one jump in guarantee is accuracy!
Contact me anytime if you need more info Sakoman! 011-795-1100. or drop me a mail martin@kalahariarms.com.

**Sakoman** · 30-03-2010, 19:40

Thanks Animal, much appreciated. I will certainly pop in when next I visit Jo'burg. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but having closely (visually) compared the Vanguard to the Howa, it is within reason almost the same thing. I'm talking about the Howa rifles that were fitted with the same synthetic stock as the Vanguard and not the latest Hogue overmoulded stocks. I would appreciate it if you could highlight the comparative differences between them, so that Trommel can understand why a R2k-R3k premium makes the Weatherby the better buy.

Dick and umshiniwam, the 9,3 x 62 certainly is a fine calibre and I for one wouldn't mind having one. I know of cases where all of the Dangerous 6 (Big 5 + Hippo) had been humanely taken with this calibre. It is my belief that it is a very underrated Dangerous game rifle, much like the .303 is for Non-dangerous game. With modern propellants and cleverly engineered projectiles, it is now possible to elevate the performance of a given calibre extremely close or equal to the ballistics values of the next calibre above it (eg; 308 elevated to 30-06), of a decade or so ago. And all that without the additional thump. This has been my own experience and I can assure you that it is fact and not fiction. If Trommel buys a 9,3 x 62 and is destined to be the only hunter to ever use it on a regular basis, then he can't go wrong. However, if a youngster (10-14 years old) or a small-framed woman were to use it fairly often, they might just find it unpleasant.

Again I stress that Trommel (and possibly those who are likely to use it often) should shoot with the different calibres suggested and form an opinion based on their own likes and dislikes.

Safe shooting!

**Trommel** · 31-03-2010, 00:24

Gentleman, Thank you for all your inputs. I have read a lot on the Musgraves and Vektor rifles and would love to have one. For the suggestion of the Weatherby, I will have to look at one and possibly sooner than later. I would love to have the opportunity to go to the range with some of the suggested caliber rifles. I have even looked at the Sako scout! all I can say is wow!!!!

My problem still is I want a rifle that can kill cleanly with minimum colatoral damage. A pleasure and cost effective to shoot and Reliable!!!!

Where is the store with the weatherley rifles? I am passing through Jburg on my way from the farm on the way back to KZN.

What would a good scope be for a allround bushveld rifle?