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  1. #21
    Moderator ikor's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    Quote Originally Posted by prodigal
    What's the deal with availability of ammo in SA?
    I notice many people have posted on the lines of, "if you find it, grab it". I assume from that, that it's hard to come by the quality stuff.
    If there's such a demand, why is no-one just getting it in? It can't be that hard, surely?
    There is very little available for export from the states. Ammunition availability in the U.S. has been crazy since Dec. 08 and while guns are slowly finding their way back onto shelves again, handgun ammo...even the cheap FMJ 'blasting' stuff...is still very hard to find and prices have not come down. Top tier SD loads are currently mostly available only to LE agency orders, although once in a while you can find a few boxes at $1 a round or so. It seems to be easing ever so slightly now, but the next hint of more or tougher regs and the panic will start all over again.

    'Just getting it in' is nowhere near as simple as it might seem.
    Run Fast, Bite Hard!

  2. #22
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    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    Quote Originally Posted by ikor
    Quote Originally Posted by prodigal
    What's the deal with availability of ammo in SA?
    I notice many people have posted on the lines of, "if you find it, grab it". I assume from that, that it's hard to come by the quality stuff.
    If there's such a demand, why is no-one just getting it in? It can't be that hard, surely?
    There is very little available for export from the states. Ammunition availability in the U.S. has been crazy since Dec. 08 and while guns are slowly finding their way back onto shelves again, handgun ammo...even the cheap FMJ 'blasting' stuff...is still very hard to find and prices have not come down. Top tier SD loads are currently mostly available only to LE agency orders, although once in a while you can find a few boxes at $1 a round or so. It seems to be easing ever so slightly now, but the next hint of more or tougher regs and the panic will start all over again.

    'Just getting it in' is nowhere near as simple as it might seem.
    Just to prove Ikor's point, the last Winchester shipment that landed here a few months back (took a year!) had NO 9x19 JHP defensive ammo on it. ZIPPO!
    Not that I care much for Winchester White Box 9x19 or Winchester Supreme (CRAP) SXT!
    Hopefully if all goes well, we'll be receiving a CCI/Speer/Federal and Remington shipment early 2010.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    By Doc GK Roberts in www.m4carbine.net read full article here [ame="http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887"]Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads - M4Carbine.net Forums[/ame]

    "The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

    9 mm:
    Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
    Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
    Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
    Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
    Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
    Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
    Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
    Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
    Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
    Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
    Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
    Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

    .40 S&W:
    Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
    Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
    Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
    Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
    Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
    Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
    Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
    Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
    Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
    Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
    Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (Q4355)

    .45 ACP:
    Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
    Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
    Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
    Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
    Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
    Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
    Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

    Notes:
    -- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)

    -- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's."

    Hmmm... just read the list again and I see the 124gr/+P Federal HST and Remington 124gr/+P Golden Saber are not on it.
    Did they both fail to make the grade?

  4. #24
    Moderator ikor's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    Not necessarily. DocGKR tests handgun loads usually at the request of LE Agencies and once in a great while at the request of large numbers of civilians (as when a load is proving extremely popular and no agency has requested it be tested) I'm pretty sure I remember him saying a few months ago that no requests (with accompaning ammo as well) had been received on the 124gr+P HST but I don't know about the GS.
    Run Fast, Bite Hard!

  5. #25
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    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    Quote Originally Posted by ikor View Post
    Not necessarily. DocGKR tests handgun loads usually at the request of LE Agencies and once in a great while at the request of large numbers of civilians (as when a load is proving extremely popular and no agency has requested it be tested) I'm pretty sure I remember him saying a few months ago that no requests (with accompaning ammo as well) had been received on the 124gr+P HST but I don't know about the GS.
    Thanks Ikor, I was gonna say somethin doesn't sound right! Real pity we can't get our hands on the Federal LE line locally. I would hazard a guess that the HST would give the Ranger T a serious run for its money, performance wise. Really like the idea of the deeper cavity on the 147gr HST's (and esp. the +P version).

  6. #26

    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    I replace the ammo in the gun at least once a year. But stored in a cool dry place it lasts a loooong time.
    How do you feel about using SILICA Gel, to help store ammo?
    "Trespassers will be welcomed, and served a light lunch"

  7. #27

    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk777 View Post
    How do you feel about using SILICA Gel, to help store ammo?
    Go buy yourself a bag of kitty litter of the silica gel type. Cheap and it works wonders in keeping things dry. Put a tray of it somewhere in your gun safe and it will definitively minimize any humidity issues.

  8. #28
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Put a tray of it somewhere in your gun safe and it will definitively minimize any humidity issues.
    If you have cats just remember not to leave your safe door standing open. You'll never be able to clean the smell of cat crap and deceased pussy off your guns...
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

  9. #29

    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    I knew it! Thanx WZ and Paul.
    "Trespassers will be welcomed, and served a light lunch"

  10. #30
    Member ARM505's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD Ammo that "demonstrate outstanding terminal performance"

    Hornady 'Critical Defence' 115gr FTX 9mmP. Box says 1140 fps if I remember correctly. Seems a little slow for a 115gr round? Slightly different looking conical shape, with a little rubbery sort of plug in the cavity of the JHP, which (they say) is to ensure reliable expansion after passing through clothing. As usual with this stuff, it's a little hard to tell if it'll be great until you actually shoot somebody. Does anybody have any further info? I'm doing a little googling, but either my google-fu is weak, or there aren't many 'proper' reviews (ie not Joe Soap on youtube giving his 2c) out there. It seems like I will be returning to the quest to find Ranger T's somewhere.

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