Parliamentary Portfolio on Police

**Wanderin' Zero** · 21-05-2016, 11:35

There is an expressed concern by the SAPS and the authorities that large numbers of firearms held by sport shooters may become sources of modern weapons for criminals. I was informed first-hand that crime intelligence analysis and prediction indicates that sport shooters are likely to become targeted by criminal gangs; indeed, that this may already be in process. One should bear in mind in this context that sport shooters and hunters are not required to store their firearms in an inoperable state and nor are they required to have category 2 safes. I cannot tell you how genuine this is or to what extent it is a pretext. I simply mention it for what it is worth.

**Kayback** · 21-05-2016, 11:59

What "modern guns"? The last couple of crime scene recovery pictures I have seen have Dashprods lying around, with the ever present Norinco pistol and Z88s. It isn't sports shooters, no matter how many they hold that are the problem.

Hell that other topic on currently has them expressing concerns for the equivalent of AK47s. 66 year old technology, which the criminals can get easily enough without sports shooters being dragged into it.

Anyone without a Cat 2 safe but 100 guns is a numbskull. Even at pre Rand crash prices and using Norinco ARs as a benchmark thats R1 000 000. You protect investments like that.

**Marc05** · 21-05-2016, 12:50

I agree about keeping it within reason, but what comes to mind is a limit on say 2 msr's or even one. That has been proposed before. We must not be pushed into accepting unreasonable changes to FCA that will be to the detriment of the true dedicated sportsmen and hunters.

**Kayback** · 21-05-2016, 13:19

A "limit" of about 10 is " acceptable". Mostly because it gives you enough spaces to have a selection of tools. All of which will have unique features.

But it is still bullshit. How many criminals are using stolen sports guns as opposed to stolen police, security and former struggle guns?

How many of all these 100+ gun owners (and how many of those are there? ) have been robbed?

It is simply the powers that be wanting to "do something" without actually stopping any real crimes.

**Cockroach** · 21-05-2016, 13:49

Originally Posted by Kayback

A "limit" of about 10 is " acceptable". Mostly because it gives you enough spaces to have a selection of tools. All of which will have unique features.

But it is still bullshit. How many criminals are using stolen sports guns as opposed to stolen police, security and former struggle guns?

How many of all these 100+ gun owners (and how many of those are there? ) have been robbed?

It is simply the powers that be wanting to "do something" without actually stopping any real crimes.

Acceptable to who?

10 may be needed for competition shoots, but what if you then hunt as well?

**AshleyR** · 21-05-2016, 16:14

Just to come back to that 100 number, who has that number of guns? Are there actually any sports shooters with even half that number licensed? I seem to recall someone involved SADPA endorsements saying they've never seen anyone request anywhere near that number of endorsements.

It wasn't too long ago that Police Minister Nathi Nhleko said "You find one individual with almost 5,000 firearms and licences for sporting purposes. We need to find a way to address this," which is also a number we believe to be a falsehood.

Keep in mind that those of the anti-gun mindset don't tend to concern themselves with truth or fact, and I believe this "sports shooter with 100 firearms" myth is simply another spectre to try scare lawmakers into further restricting our freedoms.

**Kayback** · 21-05-2016, 16:28

Originally Posted by Cockroach

Acceptable to who?

10 may be needed for competition shoots, but what if you then hunt as well?

I assumed a limit per type, so 10 bolt actions, 10 MSR, 10 shotguns, 10 pistols not 10 in total. That is crazy.i
I thought that was what the 2 or 1 MSR restriction post I was replying to was talking about.

As I said "acceptable" to most normal users and club level shooters simply because it will give you a variety of guns, long, short, high power, cheap . Not a researched or actual number I have received consensus on I was just using it as an example of even a larger number being shown as one of those "reasonable restrictions", but like I said in my very next line still BS.

**Cockroach** · 21-05-2016, 16:32

Originally Posted by Kayback

I assumed a limit per type, so 10 bolt actions, 10 MSR, 10 shotguns, 10 pistols not 10 in total. That is crazy.i
I thought that was what the 2 or 1 MSR restriction post I was replying to was talking about.

As I said "acceptable" to most normal users and club level shooters simply because it will give you a variety of guns, long, short, high power, cheap . Not a researched or actual number I have received consensus on I was just using it as an example of even a larger number being shown as one of those "reasonable restrictions", but like I said in my very next line still BS.

All good

**Harry OpieTremspoor** · 21-05-2016, 17:03

Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero

There is an expressed concern by the SAPS and the authorities that large numbers of firearms held by sport shooters may become sources of modern weapons for revolutionary resistance ...

Corrected!

**karoo.vellies** · 21-05-2016, 18:53

These inflated numbers are putting all of us at risk, every sport shooter is now assumed by the criminal element to own "a 100" modern firearms, where in reality I doubt there is even one with so many.

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