Walking with your dog and other off leash dogs question

**gustavdp** · 17-01-2017, 12:39

Hi Guys,

Just want a little advice on how to handle a hypothetical situation.

I have a border collie that has some fear aggression towards other dogs (It has gotten a lot better than it was), and I would like to now start walking with him outside of the yard on a leash. Unfortunately there are some people that walk their much bigger/stronger dogs off leash in our area - which scares me a little.

So let's say the following occurs. My dog starts barking at the off leash dog and pulls against the leash (Obviously at this point I will control him), but let's assume the off leash dog instantly gets triggered and start attacking my dog, and his owner fails to control him. Or someone opens a gate and a dog storms out.

I plan to walk with pepper spray specifically for dogs (Not sure is this will be more/less effective), an expandable baton and my FA of course. This would give me the opportunity to increase my level of force as necessary. I prefer not to kick/punch as this can put my limbs in harms way.

Unfortunately I have seen way too many videos of how pepper spray and hitting the other dog with objects just has no effect. How would you handle this situation, and at what point would you use your firearm to protect yourself and your dog?

Also, could it be considered my fault as my dog "started it"?

**MarkR** · 17-01-2017, 12:57

I'm in exactly the same boat as you. My Jack Russell has become extremely aggressive on the lead after having been attacked four times by dogs off the leash. The last time was a really nasty experience where a Bull Terrier attacked both of us. Being literally caught in the middle of a dog fight is a sickening experience. I landed up on top of the Bull Terrier and dug my elbow into the side of it's neck to keep it's jaws away from my face. My Jack Russell managed to pull free from the Bully and he then latched on fast to the Bully's throat. A neighbour ran out to help and couldn't get my dog's jaws to loosen and he had to literally tear my dog off the other dog. I could actually hear the flesh tearing. I now carry pepper spray, stun baton and obviously my gun, which by the way I was carrying when attacked. I hope I never have to check if the pepper spray or stun baton has any effect. It boggles my mind that people walk their dogs unleashed in a suburban neighbourhood.

**Moomin** · 17-01-2017, 13:30

I walk my dog at night (20:00 - 21:00) for various reasons. Less traffic meaning both vehicles and other people walking their dogs. It's cooler and therefore my dog does not overheat and after a long day it is relaxing.

Pepper spray is not an effective deterrent for dogs. You are wasting your time and might end up with spray in your eyes for no good reason. I have seen dogs that are rather scared of stun guns or the sound it makes so that might be a viable option although you risk getting a tad close to the offending animal.

It is very much a scenario driven situation. Example: If you have a little JRT and another JRT charges you, pick up your dog by the harness with weak hand above your head and bliksem said offending JRT with a Sjambok in strong hand or (forgive me) kick it. If offending dog is big, similar approach but with more responding aggression.

You can build 50+ scenarios all with different solutions or options all the way down to you have a Boerboel on leash and a rabid Rottweiler charges you and you have little option other than ending it with your pistol without shooting yourself or your dog or anything other than than the rabid attacker.

Point is, I don't think there is a single solution fits all option. So I would say, limit your risk factors where possible.

PS, good on you for taking your furry friend for a walk.

**SSP** · 17-01-2017, 13:57

Asshats who walk their dogs off leash irritate the crap out of me. They are also the cause of me not walking my dogs in public. I have had limited success in JHB getting Metro out to fine offenders as it's a contravention of city by-laws.

The problem with interactions of dogs on leash with those off leash, especially where the dogs on leash are the slightest bit uncomfortable, is that their natural responses are limited. Typically they would have the option of fight or flight. The leash limits that to fight only.

Pepper spray is about as effective on canines as it is on people. It's hit or miss.

Freaking out, screaming and shouting is massively counter productive. Typically it will just get the dogs more worked up.

Avoidance is most effective, especially if you can keep your dog focused on you.

If a fight does break out, wait for them to get a grip then choke them out. If you don't wait for a grip to be established you may find yourself putting your hands in a blender. Once the grip is released create distance as quickly as possible.

You may have to be prepared to drive your or the other dog's gums hard onto its own teeth. They are pretty much hardwired not to bite themselves.

If you have pits, bull terriers, or JRTs get a breakstick and learn how to use it. Your dog may not be the aggressor but it may end up with the other dog in its mouth.

**gustavdp** · 17-01-2017, 14:29

Originally Posted by SSP

You may have to be prepared to drive your or the other dog's gums hard onto its own teeth. They are pretty much hardwired not to bite themselves.

If you have pits, bull terriers, or JRTs get a breakstick and learn how to use it. Your dog may not be the aggressor but it may end up with the other dog in its mouth.

What do you mean "drive your or the other dog's gums hard onto its own teeth"? - Like forcefully press on their gums? I have a border collie and a mix breed with lots of gsd in her (Same size as collie) - basically medium dogs, so I guess they can inflict a lot of damage on smaller ones.

If it's a smaller dog I'll try my best to stop the attack and separate them, but if a huge ass (pitty/bullterrier included) dog (or dogs) is busy destroying my dog(s), I will fuck it up completely and I guess even shoot it if there's no alternative. It sucks because I want to go walk with them but these morons that have no control over their dogs makes it difficult. And I don't want to be put in such a situation.

**FNBROWNING** · 17-01-2017, 14:34

Always carry a big stick. There may be occasions when it will not work but pretty unlikely given that you can brain dead kill someone with one.

**gustavdp** · 17-01-2017, 14:36

Originally Posted by FNBROWNING

Always carry a big stick. There may be occasions when it will not work but pretty unlikely given that you can brain dead kill someone with one.

Knopkierrie? haha

**GAZZAMCK** · 17-01-2017, 14:59

gotta laugh every time we take our staffies to the park, R700 julius canine harnesses to ensure no escape etc, and always a bunch of clowns with german shepards or rotties off the leash.. then i get a look of disgust and panic shrieks to get their dogs away from the deathly staffies (mine are soft as butter haha)

people who do not leash their dogs are not worthy of having dogs.

Tazers work very very well, the noise breaks them out of that "locked focus"

**gustavdp** · 17-01-2017, 15:03

Originally Posted by GAZZAMCK

Tazers work very very well, the noise breaks them out of that "locked focus"

That might be a good idea. Makes me think if that doesn't work, maybe the noise from a gunshot would work (Like a warning shot). But discharging a gun in a residential area can get you in so much shit - would you be justified in doing that if nothing else works? maybe as a last resort before actually killing a dog.

**gary-t** · 17-01-2017, 15:03

Originally Posted by SSP

If you have pits, bull terriers, or JRTs get a breakstick and learn how to use it. Your dog may not be the aggressor but it may end up with the other dog in its mouth.

A few years ago I had 2 bull terriers. I took them for a walk on leashes after work. I was barely out the gate when the neighbours schnauzer came running over and bit one of my dogs. Before I knew it the male had him around the throat and
the female had him on the back leg. I managed to get the bitch off but she was clamped on again in a flash. I got her loose and flung her over the 6 ft wall. I could not get the male loose. The whole time the schnauzer was screaming which was attracting a crowd. Nobody tried to assist. Eventually I dragged them into a storm water ditch and held the bull terriers head under the water till be let go. It was not a fun experience.