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  1. #211
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    Default Re: Let's make SADPA great again

    IMHO the root cause of all the problems is a very poorly written and weak constitution that is full of vagueness and appears to give far too much power to the EXCO. Perhaps its time for a comprehensive review of the constitution. The EXCO should consider appointing a constitutional sub-committee to undertake a review and rewrite which can then be approved by the members. There are enough lawyers as members of SADPA to serve on such sub-committee.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by GK21 View Post
    IMHO the root cause of all the problems is a very poorly written and weak constitution that is full of vagueness and appears to give far too much power to the EXCO. Perhaps its time for a comprehensive review of the constitution. The EXCO should consider appointing a constitutional sub-committee to undertake a review and rewrite which can then be approved by the members. There are enough lawyers as members of SADPA to serve on such sub-committee.
    This can be done. But the restructuring(*) of the sport has already been given to a committee to look at. Once the model is agreed on and the high level required changes to the Constitution are identified, we can perhaps involve the legal minds to look at the nitty gritty. Khumba may not know it yet but even if he is not going to be part of the committee, his brain will be tapped. So we have included at least some legal minds from the get go.

    *Restructuring was already discussed on previous AGMs so it isn't something from left field. It just didn't get the attention it deserves. The brutal truth is, we've become too big an organisation for the current structure to really work. It is at least part of the reason why some portfolios struggle to execute their mandate. And if we plan plan to grow even more, it will just get worse.

  3. #213
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    Default Re: Let's make SADPA great again

    Quote Originally Posted by GK21 View Post
    IMHO the root cause of all the problems is a very poorly written and weak constitution that is full of vagueness and appears to give far too much power to the EXCO. Perhaps its time for a comprehensive review of the constitution. The EXCO should consider appointing a constitutional sub-committee to undertake a review and rewrite which can then be approved by the members. There are enough lawyers as members of SADPA to serve on such sub-committee.
    I do not agree at all on the accusations.

    The Constitution worked very well for 12 or 13 years. It was written in a similar vein to other shooting sports' constitutions at the time and it regulated the basics.

    The root cause of the problems is imo mainly politics and Exco position chasing and voter manipulation and egos.

    That the consitution and the current management structures do not work properly anymore due to the size of membership, the spread of the sport throughout SA and the abovementioned points, is undeniable.

    It is very easy when you experience the problems like SADPA is doing and sit in hindsight and just make a blanket statement and accussations of "poorly written" and "vagueness" and I will not sit by idly and not comment on that. Imo the accusation is unfair.

    Problems in management structures and the other problems referred to above were already identified at the 2015 AGM and afaik an investigation iro alternative management structures mandated at the 2016 AGM. But as Tetelestai indicated it was not followed through on due to reasons unknown. As AC at the time (2015 AGM) I warned SADPA in an open address to the members at the AGM that there were serious problems which required serious intervention. My warning was not heeded and imo a laissez-fair attitude by leaders and members resulted in the current situation.

    Any contract or constitution is just as good as the intentions, of people involved, to adhere to it.

    Luckily now a group of concerned members decided it can be no more and started an innitiative to get SADPA on track again.
    Last edited by DS; 27-02-2017 at 09:06.

  4. #214
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    Default Re: Let's make SADPA great again

    As a prospective new IDPA shooter... why all the politics. Can't we just get along and enjoy the pew pew pew?

  5. #215
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    Default Re: Let's make SADPA great again

    Quote Originally Posted by renierr View Post
    As a prospective new IDPA shooter... why all the politics. Can't we just get along and enjoy the pew pew pew?
    If you think there are many other sports including gun sports without politics you are unrealistic. Politics wil imo always be there but it should never be allowed to become all-encompassing.

    As indicated by Tetelestai, there is now a working committee to investigate the SADPA managment structures and make presentations on the way forward. I have not personbally seen the exact brief so I will reserve any further comment on that matter.

  6. #216
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    Default Re: Let's make SADPA great again

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    If you think there are many other sports including gun sports without politics you are unrealistic. Politics wil imo always be there but it should never be allowed to become all-encompassing.
    I agree.

    I also think different people join different organizations for different reasons. Some join shooting clubs for the social side of things; others to get out of the house. There are those that compete and there are those that have (or think they have) the skills to organize.

    To be honest, I cannot see why one would "aspire" to take a position on the SADPA Exco? Seems like a thankless, powerless and, at times, a really frustrating job to me. Taking a position because you think you can make a difference is something else, in my view.

  7. #217
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    Default Re: Let's make SADPA great again

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    If you think there are many other sports including gun sports without politics you are unrealistic. Politics wil imo always be there but it should never be allowed to become all-encompassing.

    As indicated by Tetelestai, there is now a working committee to investigate the SADPA managment structures and make presentations on the way forward. I have not personbally seen the exact brief so I will reserve any further comment on that matter.
    I realize this. It was kind of tongue in cheek.

    Irony is it's common interests and enjoyment that bring people together and then other random BS that tears it apart while people forget about what the original goals were.

  8. #218
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    Default Re: Let's make SADPA great again

    It is quite encouraging that everyone is discussing this openly now. Nothing will be perfect. But the sport should be in much better shape after all this. I am watching this thread and the developments with interest. I might even start shooting IDPA again.

  9. #219
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    Default Re: Let's make SADPA great again

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba View Post
    I do not agree at all on the accusations.

    The Constitution worked very well for 12 or 13 years. It was written in a similar vein to other shooting sports' constitutions at the time and it regulated the basics.

    The root cause of the problems is imo mainly politics and Exco position chasing and voter manipulation and egos.

    That the consitution and the current management structures do not work properly anymore due to the size of membership, the spread of the sport throughout SA and the abovementioned points, is undeniable.

    It is very easy when you experience the problems like SADPA is doing and sit in hindsight and just make a blanket statement and accussations of "poorly written" and "vagueness" and I will not sit by idly and not comment on that. Imo the accusation is unfair.

    Problems in management structures and the other problems referred to above were already identified at the 2015 AGM and afaik an investigation iro alternative management structures mandated at the 2016 AGM. But as Tetelestai indicated it was not followed through on due to reasons unknown. As AC at the time (2015 AGM) I warned SADPA in an open address to the members at the AGM that there were serious problems which required serious intervention. My warning was not heeded and imo a laissez-fair attitude by leaders and members resulted in the current situation.

    Any contract or constitution is just as good as the intentions, of people involved, to adhere to it.

    Luckily now a group of concerned members decided it can be no more and started an innitiative to get SADPA on track again.
    You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

    However poorly written or not it seems it no longer caters for the modern SADPA and needs a rewrite.

    You are correct however about people who have to apply the constitution. The constitution is only as good as the intentions of those who apply it.

    Our country's constitution is a classic example. It is lauded as the best written constitution in the world. Yet look how it is being abused by the powers that be. The problem is it gave to much power to the President. Problem is that those who drafted it placed to much faith in the good intentions of the President. Of course they were thinking of Mandela and not Zuma.

  10. #220
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    Default Re: Let's make SADPA great again

    Quote Originally Posted by willehond View Post
    It is quite encouraging that everyone is discussing this openly now. Nothing will be perfect. But the sport should be in much better shape after all this. I am watching this thread and the developments with interest. I might even start shooting IDPA again.
    More focus on results from members should result in a better outcome but only time will tell. I am hopeful though.

    Sent from my BV6000 using Tapatalk

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