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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by killzone View Post
    My dad bought a copy. Excellent read ! Everytime I go visit him a read a chapter. He also told me the one day he almost fell from a ladder working in the Blyderivier canyon. Mirages came low and fast practicing 'Toss bombing' Maybe Oom Pirate can tell us some more stories
    Jis broer, I'm not so sure about the Oom part!!!

    I was privileged to have had both my copy of Vlamgat and of From Fledgling to Eagle signed and by Gen. Lord before he passed away.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: SAAF - Mirage F1 History

    I think from memory that South Africa was also trying to get its hands on the J79 engine which powered the Kfir as it was more powerful and efficient than the 9k50?

  3. #13
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    Default SAAF - Mirage F1 History

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    Jaaaa... not really.... they stole the plans for the Mirage V (even though the original cover featured an F1), which they then locally produced unlicenced as the Dagger / Nesher, and later developed into the Kfir. Our 1st generation Cheetahs (E and D) were essential copies of the Kfir (C1 and C2 respectively, I think, but I'm not close to a reference now...) save that we retained the Atar engines while the Kfirs used American engines. Those first gen Cheetahs were rebuilds from our MIII EZs, DZs and D2Zs.

    Our Cheetah Cs were original Israeli airframes that we received when Israel were forced to halt development of the Lavi (which we already ordered and paid for). These airframes were completely rebuilt, had the same engines as the F1s (Atar 9K50, for which we already had the support infrastructure) and had more modern electronics than even the Israelis were allowed to put on their American fighters.
    Not sure what part you are saying not really too? They did steal the plans and in 1985 iirc they did sell copies to us. Whether we used the plans or not is moot.


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  4. #14
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    Default SAAF - Mirage F1 History

    Also keep in mind that having all the engineering drawings with all the relevant specs allowed Israel to manufacture parts to keep their ailing fleet airborne whilst developing/producing their new aircraft.


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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidc View Post
    Not sure what part you are saying not really too? They did steal the plans and in 1985 iirc they did sell copies to us. Whether we used the plans or not is moot.


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    I meant no, they didn't steal plans for the F1, but for the Mirage V.

    IIRC by 1985 our initial Cheetah development was already quite a bit underway (the original upgrades were more aerodynamic than systematic) and by that time the Kfir already existed for a while. I'd thus wager we got Kfir plans from them, not just MIII plans (the MIII being rather outdated by then)

  6. #16
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    Default Re: SAAF - Mirage F1 History

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    I meant no, they didn't steal plans for the F1, but for the Mirage V.

    IIRC by 1985 our initial Cheetah development was already quite a bit underway (the original upgrades were more aerodynamic than systematic) and by that time the Kfir already existed for a while. I'd thus wager we got Kfir plans from them, not just MIII plans (the MIII being rather outdated by then)
    I could be wrong on the dates though. As for the photo on the cover it was probably a stock photo used as the book was written as a novel.

    Developing any fighter would have been impossible without having those plans available. Israel did try and reverse engineer components prior to having the plans but that was disastrous.


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  7. #17
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    Default Re: SAAF - Mirage F1 History

    Pirate you are very much correct. We even had some great projects going to replace the cheetah with a twin engine jet called the Atlas Carver nicknamed CAVA. This project was sadly abandoned in the mid 90's if memory serves correctly. It was going to be a state of the art fighter which would of had more capabilities than the current Gripen fighters we bought.

    Google Altas Carver / CAVA. some pretty usefull reading although not much info has been released as yet. Some images are available also. None were actually produced but one prototype was in the making but not completed.

    http://www.saairforce.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=157&sid=4cfaea8d48804fd93cffe9 a58f963438

    and some images:

    https://za.pinterest.com/grmthomson7...rver-aircraft/

    For some useful info regarding the SAAF Mirage/Cheetah and other aircraft head over to the SAAF forum. There are plenty ex and current serving SAAf pilots and technicians there with very useful info. I am registered there. My uncle is in the SAAF and is qualified to fly the Oryx and the new Lynx helicopter. Withe previous Border war experience on the Wasp, Allouette 3 and Puma.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: SAAF - Mirage F1 History

    Methinks there's stuff that Pirate knows about Atlas' aircraft projects that will make your hair stand on end.
    Sent electronically, thus not signed.

  9. #19

    Default Re: SAAF - Mirage F1 History

    Quote Originally Posted by julian View Post
    I served 6;5 years in the SAAF working as a instrument tech with 1 Squadron working these aircraft till we were
    retrenched in 93 brings back lots of memories

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    Me too, '94-'97 when they closed


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  10. #20
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    Default Re: SAAF - Mirage F1 History

    We came back for the closing 1 Squadron and formal dinner

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