Security industry- LM vs AR

[Electrix]

Hi, I found this article interesting.



https://m.facebook.com/notes/the-edg...0045051078414/


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[pbuitendag]

It is interesting but I'd like to know what guys like Khumba, BigT, pdh and other AR fundis would say about reloaded rounds and cleaning the gun more frequently to ensure reliability.

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[BigT]

Ive never cleaned my AR. Well when I changed bolt carriers I wiped the worst of the gunge off. I keep it lubricated and unsurprisingly it runs like a stabbed rat.

With regards the ammo concerns , those are always interesting because how crappy can ammo be before you don't expect it to work?

Sadly many LM and AK users suffer from a version of CZ owner Amnesia, the disease where all malfunctions are instantly forgotten and vehemently denied, even to eye witnesses.

[pdh]

Sadly many LM and AK users suffer from a version of CZ owner Amnesia, the disease where all malfunctions are instantly forgotten and vehemently denied, even to eye witnesses.

Flawlessly

[BigT]

Flawlessly

100k rounds , no parts replacement, no stoppages, and ..



They feed rocks

[Kayback]

While I have had much fewer stoppages with my AK than with borrowed LM'S and ARs, the ones I had required taking the dust cover off or digging around the innards with a Leatherman to extract a re-ingested cartridge which wouldn't fall free any other way.

Fight stopping basically. Time to transition to my blaster!

Edit those .223/5.56mm stoppages were with the same crappy "left over" ammo. Old, not well looked after, unknown origin. Shitty ammo will stop any gun.

[Gunservant]

While I have had much fewer stoppages with my AK than with borrowed LM'S and ARs, the ones I had required taking the dust cover off or digging around the innards with a Leatherman to extract a re-ingested cartridge which wouldn't fall free any other way.

Fight stopping basically. Time to transition to my blaster!

Edit those .223/5.56mm stoppages were with the same crappy "left over" ammo. Old, not well looked after, unknown origin. Shitty ammo will stop any gun.

The AR failures I have seen at leagues have all been due to...wait for it...ammunition related problems: reloads. My sample size of 1000 rounds is much smaller, but considering that it has all been factory and there has not been a single failure is indicative of something.

[Kayback]

The AR failures I have seen at leagues have all been due to...wait for it...ammunition related problems: reloads. My sample size of 1000 rounds is much smaller, but considering that it has all been factory and there has not been a single failure is indicative of something.

I have seen some mag issues (crappy mags will also kill any gun. Seen shitty AK mags too) and part failure. Shoot any gun enough and you'll break something.

[FNBROWNING]

The basic design means that an AR can never be as reliable as an AK.This has squat to do with gas piston vs shitting (from a civilian perspective)where it eats.Instead it has everything to do with the magazines and in particular with the 7,62 the tapered case design which directs the round to the centre of the magazine and consequently directly into the chamber. The us military is on its 5th or 6th mag design and even that is reportedly still not ideal with some cartridges. The AR mag well has tolerance dimensions that allow for mag movement the result being that the round can hit the feedramp at different angles,lower can result in a jam. The AK design ensures (in a proper ak) consistent and tight lock of the mag to the receiver.the design even compensates for wear and variations.Net result being that ak mag dimensions do not appear to have changed since 1947.

[Tactical Tim]

We have a Norinco CQA as a range hire rifle, conservative round count based on rentals over 2 years exceeds 15k, it runs on Military surp tracers and fmj, sometimes were run out it will be "spoilt" with nickle plated Barnaul or PMP, our range officers will attest that it had no more than 3 full strip/clean critical maintenance sessions in its existence, there was so much crud in the bolt splines that it would no longer lock up, approx 1800 rds total were fired while testing silencers about 18 months ago and another test about 3 months ago.
Now don't go celebrating just yet, the range gun was one of 3 bought, none of them worked perfectly at all, we had to strip all the bolts and swop parts between them so they all eventually worked reliably.
To this day there have been no part failures, I do not clean guns, I lube the crap out out of them.

The other range gun is the type 56S, your standard piece of crap stamped steel disposable rifle, this thing never ceases to amaze me, it has a very similar hire pattern but probably has more rds through it as everyone wants to shoot the "AK". It was cut out of its heavy plastic bag, literally wiped down with an old towel and taken to the range where I discovered 2 "teabags" in the bolt and chamber, pulled them out, inserted a full mag and ran it fast and hot, and not once have we experienced any problems, it has a very smooth action now, polished by thousands upon thousands of rds. It is also the most abused rifle in the shop, when we have large groups the "AK" takes a beating and we regularly have one of the RO's take in a bucket of water to cool the thing down. They will probably add their comments below too :)

I am not endorsing either of them, AR is more reliable than people give them credit for and the AK is more accurate than people give them credit for.

I repair far more AR style rifles than I repair AK style rifles.

As for the security company rifle I would offer the AK/LM style as the buffer tubes dont bend and seize up the rifle, the mags are far more durable, we go through quite a few mags on the AR but none on the AK, still the same original 2. No fragile forends to break and crack etc.

Both rifles still run well, both in excess of 15k rds each, both have been good investments based on performance so far. We do not used reloaded ammo in AR, factory new only, AK gets anything available.