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  1. #21
    Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSheerGuns View Post
    This is probably not the place for it.
    Agreed. I'll leave my concerns for another time and place.
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Collectors, the 50 Shades of Grey

    WZ, thanks for answering some of my questions.
    I hope we never have to discuss death warrants.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Collectors, the 50 Shades of Grey

    Even as non-collector,I can forsee problems for collectors,etc in terms of legislation.

    The evidence is beginning to see daylight,eg that planted fakenews BS story the other day about "loopholes", destabilisation of neighbouring states,the incoherent rambling about weapons having more value if used in a war,blah blah,and being able to collect apparent super weapons,wunderwaffe like a Vickers being able to saw people in half or some rubbish.

    The propaganda machine is rolling in preparing public opinion...

  4. #24

    Default Re: Collectors, the 50 Shades of Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Barnard View Post
    WZ, thanks for answering some of my questions.
    I hope we never have to discuss death warrants.
    Willie,


    I understand – at least insofar as they are adequately communicated – many of the concerns that were raised on this forum. But let me also say, quite definitely, that no policies rules and/or principles are put in place at a national level without a significant amount of debate and engagement with all of the associations concerned and in many instances, those engagements and debates result in a change of direction on policies, rules and/or principles. Nothing is done lightly and everything has a great deal of thought put into it. Many people commit many, many hours of effort without compensation to try to protect the interests of collectors throughout the country. Oddly though, one almost never hears "thank you". At a local level, my own experience is that lots of members have a great deal to complain about but very few are willing to put up their hands up to actually assist when help is required; the executive committees of the associations typically commit many, many hours of their own time without charge in order to keep the associations going. I can certainly tell you that on my end, I have committed a huge amount of time. All of the foregoing should be borne in mind too when criticisms are made; criticisms are often justified and should, where they are made constructively, be appropriately considered and as far as possible engaged upon (it is not always possible to engage every individual specifically on every particular criticism). I think that all that the associations and NAACCSA really ask for is a level of understanding and constructive engagement; only too often the level of engagement is deeply negative. My own personal experience has been that when the engagements are negative, often it is because people do not understand the background or history to the particular issue. One of the driving factors behind that is a lack of adequate communication. I am concerned that we do not have an adequate framework for communication with the overall membership. This often leads to misunderstandings and misapprehensions, which in turn drives many of the concerns raised by members. In fact it is this lack of an adequate communication framework that I have again raised thsi morning in another forum.

    In relation to the question of a potential death warrant, all I can tell you is that an enormous amount of work lies ahead for NAACCSA and the underlying associations and that work in that regard has already commenced. In this context as well, our approach is usually one of constructive engagement with the authorities; unfortunately, as much as other people may think to the contrary, the only way you can persuade the authorities to see your perspective and to understand the "good you contribute" is by talking to them and enlightening them. There is a lot of work on the road ahead. Whether collectors will survive it intact is something I cannot speak to right now but I have at least some degree of optimism around it. Let me also say that if collectors do indeed survive it intact, it will in large part also be due to the fact that collectors engage in a significant degree of self-regulation.


    Best,
    WZ
    Last edited by Wanderin' Zero; 23-03-2017 at 09:08.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Collectors, the 50 Shades of Grey

    WZ, I hear you, but I think the communication is very good in certain circles and poor when it comes to the wider group of associated members.

    Changes get to a very formalised stage before they are shared and when they are shared, that are done so with a liberal dose of pessimism. Similar to responses in this thread.

    What we need is positivity and more inclusion, but maybe this stems from the fact that 'we' have been allowed to self regulate ourselves and have become our own worst enemies. But, this does continue to work for some, but certainly not all members.

    And I agree with you too on the numbers of hours that are put in, mostly by the committee members to ensure that everything is inline with policies and regulations. I need not remind you though, that many of these additional hours come as a result of these policies and regulations you mention. Self inflicted one could argue.
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Collectors, the 50 Shades of Grey

    Craig, before I respond to your note, could I ask you to please explain what your understanding is of the history behind regulation 15?
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Collectors, the 50 Shades of Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Craig, before I respond to your note, could I ask you to please explain what your understanding is of the history behind regulation 15?
    I was involved before the current peer system and I'm aware of a number of issues that were overcome on the journey from then until now. Much of which I am grateful for.
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
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  8. #28

    Default Re: Collectors, the 50 Shades of Grey

    Craig, to be clear, I wasn't trying to be provocative. There seem to be a lot of misconceptions around the genesis if Regulation 15, at least if I listen to the NAACCSA team on the subject. There are widely differing views on the question of self-regulation but not a lot of people really understand the background factors very well. It's difficult to fully communicate these things in this medium.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  9. #29
    Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Craig, to be clear, I wasn't trying to be provocative. There seem to be a lot of misconceptions around the genesis if Regulation 15, at least if I listen to the NAACCSA team on the subject. There are widely differing views on the question of self-regulation but not a lot of people really understand the background factors very well. It's difficult to fully communicate these things in this medium.Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
    Thanks and no, I understand and appreciate that. I get frustrated every few months with all this stuff. I've come to the realisation that what I like about firearms isn't catered for in any of the organisations or disciplines anymore, so I need to either adapt or move on. There's another more expressive way of putting it, but I'm not there yet.

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