Questions and Answers

**RiaanduToit** · 30-03-2017, 11:44

Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie69

Based on Riaans response on gusite FB he got the different feedback on this exact question where the response email stated:

"Please note according to our policy wording you can only use your licenced self defence license for self defence, we do understand that the act allows you to use your section 16 license in an event of selfdefence, however gunsure insurance is underwritten by the insurer AND THEY HAVE STATED THIS AS AN EXCLUSION."

So to me it seems like the reps is either trying to make a sale or they dont understand their own policy verywell. Can we get a copy of the policy document perhaps?

https://m.facebook.com/groups/127739...54717018914331

Hi. That was before Paul had his meetings/discussions with Gunsure. They have since corrected this statement in writing. This is the email I received earlier this week:

Good day
Please note i have escalated the query to senior management and have been advised that you are correct in saying you can use a section 16 fire arm for self defense, Kindly note that all cases are case managed in order to determine if it was a lawful or legal shooting.

Legal shooting as per policy wording is, an incident of discharging a legally registered firearm by the owner, with a valid competency certificate (under the Firearms Control Act).
I do apologize for any inconvenience this has caused

Kind Regards

**Gunsure** · 30-03-2017, 11:50

Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie69

Based on Riaans response on gusite FB he got the different feedback on this exact question where the response email stated:

"Please note according to our policy wording you can only use your licenced self defence license for self defence, we do understand that the act allows you to use your section 16 license in an event of selfdefence, however gunsure insurance is underwritten by the insurer AND THEY HAVE STATED THIS AS AN EXCLUSION."

So to me it seems like the reps is either trying to make a sale or they dont understand their own policy verywell. Can we get a copy of the policy document perhaps?

https://m.facebook.com/groups/127739...54717018914331

Good Day Aspoestertjie69

Thank you for your message. Our policy has since changed.

We do cover a self-defence event with a section 16 firearm. All sections are covered as long as the shoot was lawful and done with a licensed firearm that you listed with us.

We will have to get back to you regarding a copy of our policy. We will be in touch during the course of the day.

Regards
Gunsure

**The Beast** · 30-03-2017, 11:52

Originally Posted by Gunsure

Good day The Beast, in any event a pre-assessment would have to take place, whether the shoot was lawful or unlawful. We work hand in hand with the station commanders at the SAPS so the chances are that if the shoot was lawful, you will be covered. We have a duty and legal obligation to treat our customers fairly, and you have to right to approach the insurance Ombuds office for free if you believe we have not paid your claim. Our intention is to create legal and 3rd party cover for the firearms community against the consequences of being forced to defend your life.

So to use a case that we all know very well. The Oscar case. It took many months to determine whether he was guilty or not and there are many that still feels that the verdict was wrong. In such a case would he be covered? Now we have a lot of detail but when this saga started and SAPS wanted to charge him what would the verdict be?

My concern is that if SAPS are used to determine if it was a lawful shooting then by default you would not be covered if you get charged or am I missing something.

When it comes to insurance where the fact that you are covered or not may well be life or death (unable to support family). I would venture that giving cover based on historical facts (no criminal record/violent behavior) would be better indication of the nature of the person, than based on some future event that may take 5 seconds in a high stress situation.

Approaching the insurance ombudsman is definitely a recourse that you have. Unfortunately it takes some time and if you don't have the right legal counsel while waiting for the ombudsman to decide the decision may well be to late.

**Skaaphaas** · 30-03-2017, 11:55

Bail should be easy, as the insurer can recover it quickly. As long as the insured attends court, bail will be repaid.

As to lawfulness, unlawfulness, the insurer will have to work on civil burden of proof, and not criminal like the SAPS do, so it shouldn't be dependent on the outcome of the case.

**The Beast** · 30-03-2017, 11:57

Originally Posted by Gunsure

Good Day Aspoestertjie69

Thank you for your message. Our policy has since changed.

We do cover a self-defence event with a section 16 firearm. All sections are covered as long as the shoot was lawful and done with a licensed firearm that you listed with us.

We will have to get back to you regarding a copy of our policy. We will be in touch during the course of the day.

Regards
Gunsure

Why should the firearm be listed with you. Should it not be enough to be able to show that it is licensed?

**Aspoestertjie69** · 30-03-2017, 12:19

Originally Posted by RiaanduToit

Hi. That was before Paul had his meetings/discussions with Gunsure. They have since corrected this statement in writing. This is the email I received earlier this week:

Good day
Please note i have escalated the query to senior management and have been advised that you are correct in saying you can use a section 16 fire arm for self defense, Kindly note that all cases are case managed in order to determine if it was a lawful or legal shooting.

Legal shooting as per policy wording is, an incident of discharging a legally registered firearm by the owner, with a valid competency certificate (under the Firearms Control Act).
I do apologize for any inconvenience this has caused

Kind Regards

Thank you rian i only saw the related post now which basically awensers quite a few of the most important questions. Only thing that needs to be sorted is pointing of the firearm and posibly the fact that you can only use your firearm when SHTF.

http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/showthread.php?80856-GOSA-vs-Gunsure&p=1156891#post1156891

**Gleock** · 30-03-2017, 13:11

Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie69

Thank you rian i only saw the related post now which basically awensers quite a few of the most important questions. Only thing that needs to be sorted is pointing of the firearm and posibly the fact that you can only use your firearm when SHTF.

http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...91#post1156891

Paul posted about it the other day.
Guy was charged for pointing of a firearm and was then defended through the policy.

**Zuku** · 30-03-2017, 13:26

Originally Posted by Gunsure

We do cover a self-defence event with a section 16 firearm. All sections are covered as long as the shoot was lawful and done with a licensed firearm that you listed with us. Gunsure

Hi Gunsure, Would a person be covered or not in the following scenarios?

Scenario 1. A is a licensed FA owner and a member of Gunsure. He visits Bwithout his FA. In the driveway they are hi-jacked. B shoots back with his FAand is wounded. A pick up the FA of B and shoot back at the BG.

Scenario 2. A is a licensed FA owner and a member of Gunsure. He visits Bwithout his FA. In the driveway they are hi-jacked. They overpower the 1^stBG and the 2^nd BG is shooting at them. A picks up the 1^stBG unlicensed/illegal FA and shoots back with unlicensed/illegal FA.

**Gunsure** · 30-03-2017, 13:55

Originally Posted by Zuku

Hi Gunsure, Would a person be covered or not in the following scenarios?

Scenario 1. A is a licensed FA owner and a member of Gunsure. He visits Bwithout his FA. In the driveway they are hi-jacked. B shoots back with his FAand is wounded. A pick up the FA of B and shoot back at the BG.

Scenario 2. A is a licensed FA owner and a member of Gunsure. He visits Bwithout his FA. In the driveway they are hi-jacked. They overpower the 1^stBG and the 2^nd BG is shooting at them. A picks up the 1^stBG unlicensed/illegal FA and shoots back with unlicensed/illegal FA.

Good day Zuku

You will not be covered if you use someone else's firearm, we only cover you if you use your own, licensed firearm that is listed with us and if the shoot was lawful.

Regards

**Kevin Botha** · 30-03-2017, 15:25

This just seems like another insurance rip off.
You get arrested and they ask the local police if you are guilty, the reason they arrest you is that you are suspected of a crime.
SO NOW YOU SIT IN JAIL.

This seems like GunSure will just hide behind some local policeman with no understanding of the law and look for any way to get out of covering you. Where does an insurance company get the right to judge you in advance of a qualified judge, without all the facts having been presented and verified.

PS I have posted their insurance document in the GOSA-vs-Gunsure thread, with assistance, please go and read this in it's entirety, then you can decide for yourself.

It think that this insurance cover has a long way to go before it will have any purpose other than collecting money.