Gun Owner's Responsibility - Hijacking

[Zipp]

"In order for evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing."

From Edward Burke.

[Fatboyslim]

Deciding to carry a gun for SD should not be a haphazard decision. One should understand all the benefits and risks and responsibilities and especially the consequences of using the gun. Carrying a gun is a burden.

Those who do not carry has no burden in that respect.

I will not easily relinquish or risk my freedom or life or assets for people who do not want to take up the responsibilities and risks and burden that I do.

Well said

[CZ Fan]

Guys: why are these strangers not in the position to defend themselves? Why are they helpless and defenceless in a society as violent as ours? Why do we assume automatically that other citizens, simply because they are armed, should shoulder all the responsibility and all the accountability (and the consequences that go with it) because the victim is not willing to do so themselves? What if what you are seeing is not what you think you are seeing, and you end up making the situation worse and end up in a situation like Finkelstein?

You are oversimplifying a very complex situation and projecting some sort of moral code onto other people that don't share it, and you are rubbishing their reasons for not looking at the world and society with the same eyes as you do.

People can make their own choices, and live with the consequences of doing so.

EDIT PS:

Would society and the strangers we are supposed to care about look after me and my family if I cannot do so anymore because I intervened? Because I frankly do not believe they would. Not even for a moment. And that, my friends, is a fact.

You don't think if we create a culture of helping each other, then others will help you / family in time of need?

And the only way can I think of creating this culture, is to start helping people now

[Anomander]

Why is the first post not in the intro section ?

Everyone got worked up over the thread title and forgot that small point ?

Troll alert.

Or paranoia alert, perhaps?

[414gates]

Or paranoia alert, perhaps?

Very.

First post : incendiary .

Coincidence ? Or source data for another skewed academic "study" on legal gun owners ?

[Xkv8r]

I've read this thread through and both sides (intervene/not intervene) make valid points. My only hope is that in a situation like that, God would guide my hand, and give me the courage to step up and do the right thing. Otherwise I don't think I could face myself in the mirror each day. Honi soit, qui mal y pense. Evil to him who evil thinks.

[Eniigma]

I was thinking of posting a question myself today base on scenarios I can imagine/ picture myself encountering but came across this thread which answered some of my questions.
I was going to approach in purely from a legal stand point, but I see now there is a lot more to consider as well.

Guys: why are these strangers not in the position to defend themselves? Why are they helpless and defenceless in a society as violent as ours? Why do we assume automatically that other citizens, simply because they are armed, should shoulder all the responsibility and all the accountability (and the consequences that go with it) because the victim is not willing to do so themselves?

I don’t know how long you’ve had your SD weapon, but I guess it was from the day you turned 18 or perhaps you where born clutching a 45. But I’ll answer some of that for those who can’t remember that far back to the time before.

1. Firearms are expensive. Yes, yes, nothing compared to the value of yours or your loved one’s lives, I get that, but for a youngster just starting out they are expensive.
2. They are hard to get legally. Many people, myself included till a few months ago think they are near impossible to get legally. I was completely surprised last year when this whole firearms world in South Africa was opened to me. I’ve spend the better part of 20 years thinking about how much I like guns and wished I lived in the USA so I could give into my interest, but because they were “impossible” to get here I had completely killed my dream & desire to own one.
3. Most people don’t even consider the idea of getting a firearm for defence because “they are dangerous” and most people are afraid of them and if you own one or like them you are a baby killer.
4. A lot of people can’t wrap their head around defending themselves with anything more than a hockey stick or knobkerrie. The idea of using something lethal is abhorrent to a lot of people.
5. Some people are just not allowed to own them due to past crimes or some other reason. Like the guy who got a domestic complaint against him for yelling at his Mrs 10 years ago and punching the wall. Now he’s never allowed to buy a gun. Or maybe he’s someone from this forum who’s only SD weapon has been taken by the cops for testing and he’s been sitting without it for 25 months.
6. Some fear having a firearm, specifically, will make them more of a target. I’ve seen this expressed on this very forum about not advertising (open carry in your own garden) to avoid becoming a target.

Frankly to just declare they should protect themselves is both naive and arrogant.

I don’t think anyone on here would say it is automatically the responsibility of those who are armed to step in and defend the defenceless, but I despair for the future of this country when so many who can help, won’t, because it may inconvenience them. I don’t mean to belittle the consequences but spending money, having the FA taken for testing; those are inconveniences.

Yes, you could lose your life but I guess you need to answer for yourself if you are willing to risk yours to save another. And sadly, it seems many wont. At what point financially (as this was a big reason not to involve yourself) do you deem another’s life worthy? Where is the point where you said to yourself the price of saving their life is just more than I’m willing to spend? R10? R100? R1000?

I guess ultimately it comes down to whether you can live with yourself doing nothing and watching someone you could possibly have saved die, or if you intervene end up inconvenienced with a massive financial burden and legal proceedings to work through and you can only answer that for yourself.

I’d like to think I know where I’d come down in this kind of situation but I hope I never have to.

[Eniigma]

This isn't black and white and attempting to make it such misses the point. It also boils down as others have mentioned to where your personal line is.

If the car in front of me gets hijacked and the driver is thrown to the ground I intend on being a good witness. I will help them call the cops and wait with them.

If the woman driving the car in front of me gets bundled in the back seat so she can be taken, personally I am unable to fathom not attempting to stop that. Same for her kids.

Yes there is risk, but life isn't safe, so there's always risk. But I've got to look at my face in the mirror every morning after that. Knowing I had the means and opportunity to stop someone facing a fate worth than death and knowing i did fuck all because they weren't my problem is not something I could cope with.

I know many people who don't carry guns for whatever reason. Oftentimes its better that they don't because some people are just not predators. I don't think they should be subjected to the ugliness the world can bring just because they're soft gentle people. And I do hope if the gentle or unable people in my life are attacked and someone with then means is nearby, that someone does what is necessary, not what is easy.

A thought if you said "don't get involved" and have every used the annoying cliche of 'sheepdog' to refer to yourself or gun owners its time to have a conversation with yourself.

Very well said BigT.

Also I think the next person that quotes that "The only thing necessary... Edmund Burke" quote should go play in the traffic somewhere.. that horse has been beaten to death a million times over.

[Gunservant]

I was thinking of posting a question myself today base on scenarios I can imagine/ picture myself encountering but came across this thread which answered some of my questions.
I was going to approach in purely from a legal stand point, but I see now there is a lot more to consider as well.



I don’t know how long you’ve had your SD weapon, but I guess it was from the day you turned 18 or perhaps you where born clutching a 45. But I’ll answer some of that for those who can’t remember that far back to the time before.

1. Firearms are expensive. Yes, yes, nothing compared to the value of yours or your loved one’s lives, I get that, but for a youngster just starting out they are expensive.
2. They are hard to get legally. Many people, myself included till a few months ago think they are near impossible to get legally. I was completely surprised last year when this whole firearms world in South Africa was opened to me. I’ve spend the better part of 20 years thinking about how much I like guns and wished I lived in the USA so I could give into my interest, but because they were “impossible” to get here I had completely killed my dream & desire to own one.
3. Most people don’t even consider the idea of getting a firearm for defence because “they are dangerous” and most people are afraid of them and if you own one or like them you are a baby killer.
4. A lot of people can’t wrap their head around defending themselves with anything more than a hockey stick or knobkerrie. The idea of using something lethal is abhorrent to a lot of people.
5. Some people are just not allowed to own them due to past crimes or some other reason. Like the guy who got a domestic complaint against him for yelling at his Mrs 10 years ago and punching the wall. Now he’s never allowed to buy a gun. Or maybe he’s someone from this forum who’s only SD weapon has been taken by the cops for testing and he’s been sitting without it for 25 months.
6. Some fear having a firearm, specifically, will make them more of a target. I’ve seen this expressed on this very forum about not advertising (open carry in your own garden) to avoid becoming a target.

Frankly to just declare they should protect themselves is both naive and arrogant.

I don’t think anyone on here would say it is automatically the responsibility of those who are armed to step in and defend the defenceless, but I despair for the future of this country when so many who can help, won’t, because it may inconvenience them. I don’t mean to belittle the consequences but spending money, having the FA taken for testing; those are inconveniences.

Yes, you could lose your life but I guess you need to answer for yourself if you are willing to risk yours to save another. And sadly, it seems many wont. At what point financially (as this was a big reason not to involve yourself) do you deem another’s life worthy? Where is the point where you said to yourself the price of saving their life is just more than I’m willing to spend? R10? R100? R1000?

I guess ultimately it comes down to whether you can live with yourself doing nothing and watching someone you could possibly have saved die, or if you intervene end up inconvenienced with a massive financial burden and legal proceedings to work through and you can only answer that for yourself.

I’d like to think I know where I’d come down in this kind of situation but I hope I never have to.

You assume a lot.

ASS-U-ME: Making an ass of yourself and me.

Machine says you can try for hi-score with another 50 cents.

[Josephine]

I carry a gun for self defense I'm willing and able to kill to defend myself and my family I am the mother of a two year old I see a hijacking and they kidnap the woman shoud I intervene?