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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLR View Post
    I don't see an armed hijacking as a theft. What they are saying when they point a gun at you is "Do what I say, or I'll kill you", which is precisely a threat to life
    It's not theft, it's robbery.
    Sent electronically, thus not signed.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manservant View Post
    Where did I use the words "Stuff those who don't own a firearm"?My duty as a citizen of the Republic is to summon the emergency services and authorities, and to observe and report. To be a reliable witness, and to testify in a court of law regarding what happened in order to see justice done. I can assist the injured and secure the scene. You are not a policeman. You do not enjoy the legal protection and special privilege of a law enforcement officer. If you feel the need to protect society, then join as a police or law enforcement reservist.It is unreasonable to expect total strangers to put literally everything on the line for other total strangers because such behaviour conforms with the fantastical representation of the ideal society.
    You make valid points. However, I don't think I could reconcile the idea of having done nothing to assist someone if the situation allowed for me to be able to do something.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skaaphaas View Post
    You shouldn't even entertain Lian's yes/no questions.
    Would you? Yes/No....I'll get my coat.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Gun Owner's Responsibility - Hijacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaaphaas View Post
    It's not theft, it's robbery.
    Thanks. I was wondering why "armed theft" sounded so weird in my head.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Gun Owner's Responsibility - Hijacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Springer View Post
    You make valid points. However, I don't think I could reconcile the idea of having done nothing to assist someone if the situation allowed for me to be able to do something.
    If somebody is dragging a woman kicking and screaming into the bushes in front of me, I would not be able to do nothing.

    However, I am not going to chase down somebody's smash-and-grabber, or intervene in a domestic dispute (even if it is violent), or start shooting at a carjacker in the middle of traffic.

    Battles are to be picked very carefully, and when in doubt I would rather sit on my hands than get involved in something where I have limited information and may just as likely make it worse than make it better.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Gun Owner's Responsibility - Hijacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Manservant View Post
    If somebody is dragging a woman kicking and screaming into the bushes in front of me, I would not be able to do nothing.

    However, I am not going to chase down somebody's smash-and-grabber, or intervene in a domestic dispute (even if it is violent), or start shooting at a carjacker in the middle of traffic.

    Battles are to be picked very carefully, and when in doubt I would rather sit on my hands than get involved in something where I have limited information and may just as likely make it worse than make it better.
    +1

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manservant View Post
    If somebody is dragging a woman kicking and screaming into the bushes in front of me, I would not be able to do nothing.However, I am not going to chase down somebody's smash-and-grabber, or intervene in a domestic dispute (even if it is violent), or start shooting at a carjacker in the middle of traffic.Battles are to be picked very carefully, and when in doubt I would rather sit on my hands than get involved in something where I have limited information and may just as likely make it worse than make it better.
    You see now. We were all on the same page from the beginning. :)

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Gun Owner's Responsibility - Hijacking

    I did not make the decision to edc a firearm to protect other people (read not my family and friends) or else I would've became a cop.
    I edc to protect myself and my loved ones. That does not mean I will not help if I find myself in a sitution were someone needs help, but only if I assess the situation and are sure I won't bite of more than I can chew. (I know that will be a difficult call to make)

    In the situation the OP discribes, I think it will be a pretty kak idea to jump out of the car and take on multiple armed attackers (and risk getting killed)if it's not even your fight to begin with.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Gun Owner's Responsibility - Hijacking

    I was involved a "similar" situation at the beginning of December last year. The differences were that there were two armed hijackers hijacking a customer of mine as he walked back to his vehicle. I was standing outside at the time. The hijackers confronted the passenger seated in the front passenger seat and the driver as he approached the vehicle at the same time. Believe it or not the customer only noticed what was going on as he was virtually ready to climb into his vehicle. His reaction was to turn and run back towards my business. The suspects immediately opened fire at him and the passenger. I had already seen what was going to happen and had drawn my firearm but was concealed behind a sign board. When the hijackers opened fire, I instinctively screamed to draw their attention away from my customer. The hijacker who was already getting into the drivers seat opened fire at me. I returned fire. A friend that was with me rugby tackled me to the ground and the shooting stopped. When I got to my feet the car was gone. The passenger was on the floor with a gunshot wound to his lower left abdomen and his left thigh. The owner of the vehicle was unharmed. This all took less than one minute according to my CCTV.

    My attention was then turned to the injured passenger. He was loosing blood fast and going into shock. Private ambulances were called but none arrived within thirty minutes, family members that had arrived then took the injured passenger to hospital.

    The SAPS took my firearm for ballistic testing. I haven't got it back to date. The vehicle was recovered by Cartrack within an hour and the driver arrested with gunshot wounds to his right leg. The second hijacker was arrested a few weeks later committing another hijacking in Port Shepstone, he shot the female victim in that incident.

    Besides now running my business with no firearm since the incident, My turnover has fallen by at least thirty percent due to the public feeling unsafe. My family now waits almost in panic until I am home. Sometimes I feel that I should have just held back, usually when I am trying to meet my commitments at month end. But I know that the situation would have been much worse for the customers involved if I did not do what I did. I still fear revenge attacks as I live just a few doors away from the business. I still have dreams about that night but usually I am the one getting hurt and not the hijackers in these dreams.

    My apologies for the long muddled vent. I did not realize how fresh this still is in my mind.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Gun Owner's Responsibility - Hijacking

    Quote Originally Posted by DVS View Post
    I was involved a "similar" situation at the beginning of December last year. The differences were that there were two armed hijackers hijacking a customer of mine as he walked back to his vehicle. I was standing outside at the time. The hijackers confronted the passenger seated in the front passenger seat and the driver as he approached the vehicle at the same time. Believe it or not the customer only noticed what was going on as he was virtually ready to climb into his vehicle. His reaction was to turn and run back towards my business. The suspects immediately opened fire at him and the passenger. I had already seen what was going to happen and had drawn my firearm but was concealed behind a sign board. When the hijackers opened fire, I instinctively screamed to draw their attention away from my customer. The hijacker who was already getting into the drivers seat opened fire at me. I returned fire. A friend that was with me rugby tackled me to the ground and the shooting stopped. When I got to my feet the car was gone. The passenger was on the floor with a gunshot wound to his lower left abdomen and his left thigh. The owner of the vehicle was unharmed. This all took less than one minute according to my CCTV.

    My attention was then turned to the injured passenger. He was loosing blood fast and going into shock. Private ambulances were called but none arrived within thirty minutes, family members that had arrived then took the injured passenger to hospital.

    The SAPS took my firearm for ballistic testing. I haven't got it back to date. The vehicle was recovered by Cartrack within an hour and the driver arrested with gunshot wounds to his right leg. The second hijacker was arrested a few weeks later committing another hijacking in Port Shepstone, he shot the female victim in that incident.

    Besides now running my business with no firearm since the incident, My turnover has fallen by at least thirty percent due to the public feeling unsafe. My family now waits almost in panic until I am home. Sometimes I feel that I should have just held back, usually when I am trying to meet my commitments at month end. But I know that the situation would have been much worse for the customers involved if I did not do what I did. I still fear revenge attacks as I live just a few doors away from the business. I still have dreams about that night but usually I am the one getting hurt and not the hijackers in these dreams.

    My apologies for the long muddled vent. I did not realize how fresh this still is in my mind.
    My firearm is still in the SAP13...nearly 25 months later. The docket is still not closed, due to it being mislaid and neglected several times. If I did not have three other pistols, I would have been disarmed for more than two years.

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