Feral Pigs

[Messor]

Yeah I knew this would be your response.

Doesn't matter if I have years more experience in this than you, doesn't matter what I say, you won't even try and understand, not in the least.
You just want to be right.

Cool, your right.

[Skaaphaas]

Sorry dude. There is no way on earth you are going to convince me that leaving animals to die a slow lingering death is acceptable. Because in short it isn't.

If you have to kill animals they should be shown the same courtesy as game and you should do everything in your power to ensure they don't suffer.

So it's not about experience. It's about being ethical. And torturing animals is not ethical.

Yet we poison rats and mice, which is a painful and lingering death every time.

Extermination of vermin is about volume, otherwise it is ineffective and can even be counterproductive.

[karoo.vellies]

This argument is like convincing certain people that there is in fact a difference between me killing the attacker vs the attacker killing me, for some people the ethics behind selfdefense is different. You just can not convince them otherwise.

Same with killing animals that kill live stock or those that destroy livelihoods like crops.

I ask again, a mouse trap, rattax, drowning ex used to kill mice is brutal, they suffer a painful death yet no one thinks twice about using these methods.

No one advocates torturing the pest animals, but people take not so ideal shots because the pests needs to be killed. It beats slag ysters and poison, so its unfortunate that some do suffer, but thats not intentional.


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[Springer]

These days I don't bother anymore, however, if you ignore the lunatics and bunny huggers, the public seems to know what is right and wrong, and they don't see several departments of hunting, they view hunting as a whole. Sooner or later hunting will come to an end, I wonder whom will get the blame when that day comes, seeing as ethics are just nonsense.

.

[pre 64]

BigT....Hear what you say man,and understand.The OP shot too far back on the pigs,shot placement was poor,does happen,but follow up was done and pigs recovered in the morning.Believe me,the OP knows he duffed it and he will play that shot over and over again in his mind.It is never nice to be in such a situation and i am certain that he was striving for a one shot,instantaneous kill.

I have shot my fair share of bushpig at night and even on a well placed shot the animal sometimes runs off 10 to 100m , this is normal.I then follow up in the morning with my jack russel to recover the carcass.

Messor was brutally honest with what he says and please dont confuse hunting with problem animal control.This control work[and i repeat,work,not sport] has to be done in the most efficient manner. When hunting,a marginal or risky shot should not be taken. On control work,the same shot is taken.The PROFFESIONAL doing the shooting still tries his best to ensure a clean kill and he is normally darn good at it.

Same as culling...head shots are required. Most hunters avoid head shots as they are more risky than body shots.

So,we have hunting,we have problem animal control and we have culling.

Morals and ethics still apply,but lets just say that the end goal requires a different mind set when it comes to these different aspects.
Believe me,no one rejoices when an animal is wounded.

Lets put you in a scenario.You have a cattle farm on the Botswana border.In the last 2 months you have lost 23 cattle to lions crossing over onto your farm at night.You are at your wits end and then one evening you see 3 lions in the headlights of your cruiser.2 run off and just before the 3rd one disappears into the bush you see him in your 458"s scope standing between 2 trees.One more step and he is gone.The only problem is that only his rear end is visable but you know that breaking his hips or shooting him in the gut will ultimately kill him and solve your cattle loss problem.You gonna pull that trigger or not?

[treeman]

Pre 64
The only problem is that only his rear end is visable but you know that breaking his hips or shooting him in the gut will ultimately kill him and solve your cattle loss problem.You gonna pull that trigger or not?

if you not sitting comfy at home eating meat some one else has killed, the answer will always be the same.
My dog shoot has been cancelled,can't say I am not pleased, sheep that side of farm have all been driven into one kraal the kraal is corrugated iron sheeting 3 side and wire fence on small front area. The front section of fence is the only approach area, and their last if they do come.
But for some reason they will not come tonight, its almost like they have a guardian Angel.

Skaaphaas
Yet we poison rats and mice, which is a painful and lingering death every time.
Extermination of vermin is about volume, otherwise it is ineffective and can even be counterproductive.

Yes - so well said, "selective morality"

[A-R]

From where I am sitting, I see several types of shooting:
1. Sport hunting. (Usually by paying hunters. This is how conservation on private land is mostly funded.)
2. Culling. (Usually for the commercial venison industry, or to protect the environment from overpopulation.)
3. Game farm management shooting. (The shooting of injured or sick animals, animals with poor genes etc.)
4. Varminting. (Problem/invader animal control shooting to limit damage to crops and/or the environment.)
5. Self defense. (Last resort shooting of human attackers.)
6. Poaching. (The illegal and indiscriminate killing of animals out of greed, using any possible method.)

Each of these types of shooting have their own rules. These rules differ substantially. The lower you go down the list, the more unpleasant the process becomes. It also becomes more necessary at times. (Except no. 6.)

While the first 3 heavily emphasize shot placement (mostly due to ethics reasons), the last 3 don't. You will not refuse to shoot an attacker in a fight for your life, because you can not get an optimal killing shot. Killing is not even a desired outcome. You just want to stop the attack. And this is a HUMAN we are talking about here.

When varminting, stopping the damage is the primary objective. Clean hits, perfect shot placement and % of useable meat, are not even a consideration. They are a mere luxury. And no, no one is saying it is an enjoyable job. It is still much better than gin traps, poison or clearing the whole district of habitat, because that is the alternative.

So if you can't stomach varminting, in stead of giving a morals sermon, why don't you suggest some workable alternatives? And here I am talking about practicaly viable solutions. The moral lectures,no matter how loud, won't keep the crop raiders away for very long...

The anti-hunters are against all forms of hunting. They do not differentiate between the most ethical sport hunting and the lowest form of poaching. To them it is all just the same, and they state that openly. How ever much we stick to our hunting ethics, and yes we should keep doing that, will not have any influence on the anti-hunting campaign.

Funny enough, most anti-hunters are not vegans. They still enjoy eating meat, even venison. None of them object to the methods used to kill the livestock in an abbatoir, simply because they do not have a clue how such a bussiness operates. I will argue that, shooting a feral pig a little too far back than optimal, is still much more ethical (and less objectionable) than using an electrical cattle prodder to herd animals into an abbatoir, where they can smell the blood and fear, hear the noises, and know they are going to die soon.

That's just my view. I am most willing to be convinced otherwise when presented with facts and practical solutions to actual problems.

[Messor]

I've had to take a knife, put it on the throat of an animal, and cut the arteries until it stops moving.
More than I care to remember.

I find it insulting that people question my judgement on ethics when.............actually they have no such experience.

If you want to post something clever, be my guest.
Dunning kruger is your master.

I'm not clever with pistols and semi auto's and whatever, I'm just me, insult away and see where it gets you.

[treeman]

AR - dying in a Gin trap must surely have a edge on the death of queuing up to die at a abattoir. Animals die horrific deaths in nature, eaten half alive starvation falling in holes etc etc and perhaps they have evolved with a kind of acceptance of death as just how it is. I how ever do not believe anything can evolve to accept the sounds and smells and animal behavior at a abattoir. I refer to bought meat as torture meat and use terms like " you are eating suffering" and 'you are eating deprivation motivated by greed" when arguing anti hunt, buy my meat types.
Lastly - I truly believe that Torture meat is not good for you on many levels, those peoples that prayed for the animal they killed, they were onto something, I am sure of this thing.
Perhaps I am just weird, thats why I pick up shit for my posts, dunno but some one mentioned a moral compass and another reminded us of rat poison and mouse traps use, and abattoirs, how is the killing of a "other problem" different ?. The mouse trap is often no different than a gin Trap and Rattex is no different to any other poison bait.How is shooting two problem animals pigs with one shot worse than putting a animal as intelligent and social as a pig in a feeding pen for its entire short life to make your bacon a bit cheaper. Think of these things next time you have bacon from a grow pen and eggs from a egg battery hen. Even a not so well placed bullet is better than civilized mans so called humane ways.
Do not know who post is directed at, but perhaps reader does.

[treeman]

Post has drifted far from Ferral Pigs, but here a picture of morals and ethics. This little boy used to hunt all week end to get one goose and we would cook it, his father bought him a 223 and loaded it with 45 gr varminting bullets and taught him at range.next we went to farm and I saw a white faced duck at 220 something meters,it was in a field and so far. Since it was to far and since he had not had a opportunity to shoot all day, I invited him to have a try. I forgot what the bullet would do to the duck,but never mind he would never hit it.Twice max practice distance. Well he hit it and it blew apart and this is his face when he found, in his words " we wasted his life daddy". He was truly upset

I actually gave him sugar water, he was also so angry at me.
morals ?????
His
Mine ????? I let him take shot - cause I thought he would miss, first bad.I did not recall what I had taught him myself about each creatures one life only. Hypocrite Dad