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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Firearm not on Dealer's name

    Quote Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
    This feels so wrong man, it's almost as if the dealer is using the buyer as a pawn against CFR.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong but if the gun is still on the importer's name the person is essentially buying it from someone who is not licensed to sell retail.
    Sigh...

  2. #12

    Default Re: Firearm not on Dealer's name

    Quote Originally Posted by A-R View Post
    The dealer has paid for the gun and submitted his SAPS350(a) to CFR, who failed to capture it. What more do you expect of him? It's not his fault that CFR don't process the paperwork the dealer is obliged by law to submit. AFAIK, this whole issue was part of the recent court case.
    This issue certainly feels worthy of the the court case. I'll see if I can find something on it.

    Me, and I would imagine the vast majority of firearm consumers, would have wanted the dealer to try and source the import permit as requested by the DFO.. And if a couple of months have gone by, the purchaser has done everything in his power to try and resolve this matter to no avail, I would expect the dealer to refund the customer, wait until the firearm record is updated on CFR and then sell it to another customer. I would also have expected better customer service, the dealer taking interest in my problem and not having the phone put down in my ear.

    Also consider: The customer has paid for the gun and submitted his SAPS271 to CFR, who won't capture it. He then spent months researching the matter, engaged numerous times with his DFO, submitted documents and doing absolutely everything in his power to sort out the mess. What more do you expect of him?

    Certainly the answer isn't asking the purchaser to go out and find another sap to take over the mess?

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Firearm not on Dealer's name

    I see it as follows:
    1) The dealer is obliged to get the firearm transferred from the importer's book to his own book.
    2) The customer is obliged to get it transferred from the dealer's book into his own name.
    3) The customer is DEFINITELY NOT obliged to ensure that it is transferred from the importer to the dealer.

    It's all very well submitting paperwork, but having done so does not relieve one of one's obligations. All of us individuals follow up with the CFR and solve our own problems (or pay someone to do so for us) when we submit paperwork so I feel that the dealer should be following up and resolving any issues around the paperwork he has submitted.

    In this context In this context the dealer is essentially passing his own obligations onto the customer.

    Just my 2c

  4. #14

    Default Re: Firearm not on Dealer's name

    Not us involved here, but the blame lies squarely with the DFO.
    He has the PI number (on the SAP350 likely) and is just refusing to capture the application. He CAN capture it if he likes, but like a few DFO's out there, he is making up his own law and expecting everyone to follow it. 99% of other DFO's will have no probably capturing the application.
    And no...he has no right to the import permit, as the importers do not need to provide it to the dealers. They submit a 350a when the guns are imported, and any gun still on Govt 29 is only because CFR is not processing those 350's. They wait for the application before they take it from the importer to the dealer to the client.
    In this case, it is the DFO being difficult. Probably one of about 6 DFO's countrywide that consistently make up their own laws and refuse to follow procedure.
    A dealer cannot GETa firearm transferred anywhere. All they can do is submit the 350's and hope someone at CFR processes them. Can't follow up and ask why they haven't been done, can't go there...can't do anything but keep submitting.
    Hence most 350's are now only done as the application is worked on. If your DFO says it is the dealer's responsibility to get it on his name, he is ignoring the way things actually work.
    Last edited by DaveSheerGuns; 13-05-2017 at 09:39.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Firearm not on Dealer's name

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSheerGuns View Post
    but the blame lies squarely with the DFO.

    1) guy buys firearm from dealer
    2) CFR finds out firearm is not in dealer's name.
    3) dealer refuses to assist.


    fraud
    frɔːd/
    noun

    • wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.



  6. #16
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Firearm not on Dealer's name

    Why doesnt the dealers check if the FA is on the CFR system in their name before selling the FA?
    Then the customers wont have these problems, pulling out their hair and wait forever for their licenses, nevermind the extra costs they put in to get things sorted?

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Firearm not on Dealer's name

    Better question - why doesn't the SAPS ( in this case your DFO and CFR) do the work for which you have paid your R140?

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Firearm not on Dealer's name

    The dealer can't do much about it other than speak to the dfo and ask him to do his job.
    I assisted someone a while ago with the same problem, but in his case the dfo didn't know how to sort it out.
    This is the reason why all apps need to have a 350a form so that the dfo/cfr can process the application in a situation as in the OP.

  9. #19
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lian View Post
    1) guy buys firearm from dealer
    2) CFR finds out firearm is not in dealer's name.
    3) dealer refuses to assist.


    fraud
    frɔːd/
    noun

    • wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.



    Bullshit!


    The dealer as DSG mentioned can't "transfer" the ownership of the gun at Cfr. Only CFR can.

    Also as DSG mentioned the 350's which should be processed aren't. Once again the dealer has done what he can it's now out his hands once he submits his 350's.

    Further as once again mentioned by DSG the DFO had all the information they need to capture the app if he has the 271 and the relevant 350's and he or she has made the choice not to process the app not the dealer.


    Basically just read DSG's post

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Firearm not on Dealer's name

    Well said T

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