Firearm not on Dealer's name

**Taranis** · 13-05-2017, 11:24

Originally Posted by Will101

Why doesnt the dealers check if the FA is on the CFR system in their name before selling the FA?
Then the customers wont have these problems, pulling out their hair and wait forever for their licenses, nevermind the extra costs they put in to get things sorted?

Agreed. The dealer is in the best position to sort the matter, not the customer. It seems as if the dealers are washing their hands of the problem hoping that the customer will create a fuss with CFR.

**BigT** · 13-05-2017, 11:43

Originally Posted by Taranis

Agreed. The dealer is in the best position to sort the matter, not the customer. It seems as if the dealers are washing their hands of the problem hoping that the customer will create a fuss with CFR.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

**Meteor** · 13-05-2017, 11:48

Originally Posted by DaveSheerGuns

He has the PI number (on the SAP350 likely) and is just refusing to capture the application. He CAN capture it if he likes,

Shotto DSG.

**Meteor** · 13-05-2017, 11:48

Originally Posted by PeaceOfficer

Sigh...

No man don't be like that :)

**jeanm** · 13-05-2017, 13:45

Correct me if I am wrong, but how is the dealer in possession of this firearm if the appropriate documents have not been completed/stamped/passed call it whatever you want.Surely the dealer knows that this firearm has not passed into its name? and lastly does this not constitute illegal possession of a firearm? I know it might be harsh or jumping the gun and I am aware that dealers and individuals are not treated the same according to the law but now once again the consumer has forked out thousands and nobody gives a shit.

**BigT** · 13-05-2017, 13:59

Originally Posted by jeanm

Correct me if I am wrong, but how is the dealer in possession of this firearm if the appropriate documents have not been completed/stamped/passed call it whatever you want.Surely the dealer knows that this firearm has not passed into its name? and lastly does this not constitute illegal possession of a firearm? I know it might be harsh or jumping the gun and I am aware that dealers and individuals are not treated the same according to the law but now once again the consumer has forked out thousands and nobody gives a shit.

The dealer submits the required paperwork. This isn't always updated on the system. The dealer has no control over that.

So no they're not in illegal possession.

Read DSG's post!

**Meteor** · 13-05-2017, 14:02

To the OP. Why hasn't the seller phoned the DFO and told him/her how to do this? Surely their word weights more than yours.

Originally Posted by jeanm

Correct me if I am wrong, but how is the dealer in possession of this firearm if the appropriate documents have not been completed/stamped/passed call it whatever you want.Surely the dealer knows that this firearm has not passed into its name? and lastly does this not constitute illegal possession of a firearm? I know it might be harsh or jumping the gun and I am aware that dealers and individuals are not treated the same according to the law but now once again the consumer has forked out thousands and nobody gives a shit.

I think it works more like when you sell your gun to a dealer.
They can take the firearm in on the spot and then apply for it.
Some of them even leave it on the owner's name and only do the transfer once it is sold...months later.

The part about them thinking this is ok to let the OP's pal have some of it is the problem. Many a man has been in a kak situation and needed a firearm asap but had to contend with this. Instead of selling guns that can be licensed without this hurdle or at least asking if the person is in some kind of dilemma they'd rather, hmmm let me quote "SIGH".
Us okes DO NOT need to know this stuff, finish and klaar.

Dealers really shouldn't overstep the fact that buyers are allowed to be upset after 1 to infinity months of not having a firearm especially if they know this can happen.
I completely understand DSG's post and like that there is a solution but some of us do not want this problem, nor its solution. What is so hard to understand about that???

Till one of the dealers have bought a firearm, signed a contract, tried to license, failed to capture, payed storage fees, been attacked about 5-6 months after the purchase then had to sell and look for a another firearm while low on cash...
I do not think they the right to an opinion.

**G33** · 13-05-2017, 14:54

You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. This shit happens daily due to the CFR not capturing the paperwork.

OP
Here is what I did, I got the 2 350s from my dealer, 1 showing his receiving of the stock from dealer/importer x and the other is the 1 he usually gives to the customer showing stock
as his. All you need to is show the chain of custody and the onus is on you.

Sent from my SpaceCraft using MindControl!

**SafeAction** · 13-05-2017, 16:15

Originally Posted by G33

You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. This shit happens daily due to the CFR not capturing the paperwork.

OP
Here is what I did, I got the 2 350s from my dealer, 1 showing his receiving of the stock from dealer/importer x and the other is the 1 he usually gives to the customer showing stock
as his. All you need to is show the chain of custody and the onus is on you.

Sent from my SpaceCraft using MindControl!

When the 1st batch Glock 43's landed in SA, the Dealer I bought mine from did exactly the above and supplied me the 2 forms one showing receiving stock, and the second indicating stock (cant recall exact form numbers, or terms used on the form (So don't quote me on the word "stock"/350*), but they specifically mentioned they are giving me both as CFR/SAPS has most likely not captured it....

**DaveSheerGuns** · 13-05-2017, 17:04

Originally Posted by BigT

Bullshit!

The dealer as DSG mentioned can't "transfer" the ownership of the gun at Cfr. Only CFR can.

Also as DSG mentioned the 350's which should be processed aren't. Once again the dealer has done what he can it's now out his hands once he submits his 350's.

Further as once again mentioned by DSG the DFO had all the information they need to capture the app if he has the 271 and the relevant 350's and he or she has made the choice not to process the app not the dealer.

Basically just read DSG's post

Thank you T (Who knows the situation as well as anyone in SA does)
And Lian...your replies are becoming predictable and tiresome.
You now have confirmation from multiple people that it is the DFO refusing, and not any correct procedure that he is following.
Note the following conversation that happens weekly with various applicants or DFO's:

Applicant: "I am at the police station, and they won't process my application because it is on Govt Dept 29"
Dealer: "Correct, all guns imported are on Govt 29 until CFR processes the stock received 350's which they usually only do nowadays when they get your application"
Applicant: "Yes, but they say they need the PI number."
Dealer: "Yes...the PI number is on the 350 attached. Btw, ask the DFO what a PI number is?"
Applicant: "They say it is a Permanent Import number"
Dealer: "Correct. And the DFO is asking YOU for the PI number?"
Applicant: "Correct"
Dealer: " The PI number is on the SAP350 attached. But just out of interest, ask the DFO exactly WHO issues the PI number?"
Applicant: "He says CFR issues the PI number"
Dealer: "Correct. So the DFO is asking for a number that THEY issued themselves? Why doesn't he just look it up on the system?"
Applicant: "............."

Yes. The DFO's don't know their own system. They can even print the whole import permit if they like. Most don't know even 10% of the computer/Enatis functions available to them.