Frontier ammo 223

**PieterJan** · 31-07-2018, 06:55

Oh and maybe another piece of info. When I use Nobletec ammo, which has an FJ headstamp and green paint around the primer. (So from what I have read is not reloads as their packaging claims, but rather re-packaged Chinese/ Singapore surplus military ammo) then I shoot higher than with my own reloads and based on the primers have higher pressure in the gun as well. So I think its safe to say the velocities on these FJ rounds are higher than my own reloads.

And I get excellent groupings with these FJ rounds, but as far as I can establish these bullets are not CMJ but brass ? so I guess they don't mind excessive speeds.

**Stevendr** · 31-07-2018, 07:16

Hi Pieter,
Some advise, before you embark on any further testing, invest in a chrony.

Then, buy a brown box 55gr PMP and white box 55gr Winchester and shoot them through the chrony (record velocities, accuracy and visible primer pressure signs). Start building from there.
I cannot find data for your barrel length from reliable sources (Somchem / Vihtavuori) to even guess what fps you should be getting.

I had to do the same when I was developing a load for my 10.5 inch.

Good luck and don't forget to share your results

**PieterJan** · 31-07-2018, 08:26

Hmmm I'm zooming in on my problem.
223_63g.png
This graph is for a 223 63g bullet. rumour has it the 5.56 was designed for a 20" barrel. So if you look closely at this graph I will get 3000 fps with my 20" barrel vs. ~2700 fps for a 14" barrel. Now I know currently we're talking about 55g bullets but I guess the results will be very similar.

So thanx for very sane advice Steven and others, my next step is to Chrono. But in the meantime it seems safe to assume that while 23.4g is a safe load resulting in speeds of ~2800fps for a LM5, it is most likely resulting in close to 3000 fps in my Steyer AUg with 20" barrel, and that is just to much for a Frontier.

I will keep you posted once I have my final results.

**carleng** · 31-07-2018, 08:29

Originally Posted by PieterJan

Hmmm I'm zooming in on my problem.
223_63g.png
This graph is for a 223 63g bullet. rumour has it the 5.56 was designed for a 20" barrel. So if you look closely at this graph I will get 3000 fps with my 20" barrel vs. ~2700 fps for a 14" barrel. Now I know currently we're talking about 55g bullets but I guess the results will be very similar.

So thanx for very sane advice Steven and others, my next step is to Chrono. But in the meantime it seems safe to assume that while 23.4g is a safe load resulting in speeds of ~2800fps for a LM5, it is most likely resulting in close to 3000 fps in my Steyer AUg with 20" barrel, and that is just to much for a Frontier.

I will keep you posted once I have my final results.

I'm on mobile, so can't see where you are based. If you are in the Gauteng region, I see Tim over at Tactical22 has a chrony at his new range. Maybe you can go there to test.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

**Gleock** · 31-07-2018, 09:48

Originally Posted by PieterJan

Yes, after all the reading up I've done yesterday it would seem the next logical step is shooting through a chrono, now if I can just find a friend :-)

So just to be sure based on the last few posts about the Hornadys failing. Is the failing part because of the black "vortex" mark on the target ? Does this imply it's throwing of lead ?

So the Hornadys start failing but is still accurate, but the Frontiers fail to the point where they completely loose accuarcy ? I'm not trying to be funny now, I just want to make sure I understand correctly.

I guess the fact that I have a 20" barrel might be the reason why I might get higher speeds (to be confirmed with chrono) with my mere 23.4g S321 ?

Yes, the lead trail is the bullet failing. It is either over stabilised or the jacket is being damaged.
The Horandy have a different jacket design, that is why it is happening to a lesser effect with that bullet.

The milsurp are FMJ bullets so the jackets are much thicker.

**PieterJan** · 21-08-2018, 13:53

Steyr vs LM5.jpg
So I've loaded a number of rounds with different bullets for testing.
Test 1 as above I used 8 CMJ Frontiers rounds meticulously loaded at the same time at 23.4g (on my scale in any case)
I then fired 4 rounds at 30m with a LM5 iron sights. See the excellent grouping, nice round holes - the one that is low was the first shot, the trigger was much lighter than I expected.
I then from the same position fired 4 rounds using my Steyr with a scope. The holes are mostly keyhole and all over the target as you can see.

I then fired another 4 rounds with my Steyr from the same position using Frontier CMJ loaded at 22.6g which is below the recommended minimum charge of 23.3g. I got the same "all over the target result.

I then went on to the Hornadys and fired a very nice grouping at 100m with my Steyr.

I also had discussions with the guys from Frontier. They basically said, Don't even bother, they know the CMJ Frontiers will fail with my 20" barrel. So they gave me a 100 Frontier Range Master bullets. I haven't tested them yet but all indications are that they will have no problems.

So in summary:
DON"T USE CMJ Frontiers in long fast twist barrels.

And sorry, NO I haven't used a chronie yet, organised one but then last minute things fell through. But based on what I have read the speed difference between an LM5 11" barrel and my 20" barrel is as much as 2600fps versus 3000fps.

So I guess that puts all of this to bed.

**wave.jaco** · 21-08-2018, 14:25

Interesting results that you have there. I would've been nice to actually fully understand why the Frontier CMJs keyhole in the longer barrel, though. Just saying that it wouldn't work in long barrels with a fast twist rate isn't very explanatory (at least for me - I would like to understand why).

**PieterJan** · 21-08-2018, 15:48

Best explanation I can offer is, the bullet spins too fast, the jacket disintegrates and in the process cause the bullet to deflect / wobble to the effect noticed on my target.