Drugs and Darting

**SBB** · 25-05-2017, 20:30

Originally Posted by prepare2win

I was responding to your question of "any truth to this?" in the OP

I appreciate the response and dont dissagree the drugs have been used for poaching. Have seen it myself. Was wondering if the decision to restrict was based on this or is it a rumour and the decision was other factors?

**SBB** · 25-05-2017, 20:37

Originally Posted by Epsilon

/Quote Have used those darts. Possibly your design/work? At one stage we used an imported brand and had issues whereby the impact dented the battery causing a loose conection and loss of power to the transmitter. These were 500k impala in thick bush. Was interesting.... /I only made a limited number of these. Client had a different view as to what my R&D skills were worth. I don't think he had enough info to duplicate my work, so that is where it ended. There were some imported units that I looked at, and x-rayed, etc. Gave me a starting point.The drug synth would have been interesting, but very time-consuming to get right. Would never have got my money back though. Also, anaesthesia and tranquilisation are not in my core area of expertise.A serious difference in philosophy exists. The 'custodians' of wild life in a few cases seem to feel that technical services (from myself) must come at a very low price, for no other reason than they are "conserving" the previously mentioned wildlife. This view has been strongest from those in receipt of foreign "research money" It is a strange world we live in. I admit my experience sample is limited to about 3 cases, so is a generalisation.

Yup conservation is a very funny....well funded field. Yet people seem to want everyone to work for no profit. Just look at the jobs, student opportunities available and the payments. Some even advertise to foreigners to pay to work for a year in African conservation. That said because of the passion some people have there will always be those willing to tackle the issues in conservation at little reward or pro bono.....its just sometimes you get what you pay for.

**Finkelstein** · 26-05-2017, 11:26

M99 is a semi synthetic opoid, that is 3000 stronger than morphine. Having a LD 50 of 30ug, a droplet inhalation by a human can be fatal. Thus it is packed with naloxone, the opoid antidote.
Having a Schedule 6 drug untegulated will be unheard of and very dangerous.

**R Scholtz** · 26-05-2017, 12:54

What a downer! Expected totally different content in this thread by the heading.

**johannvdg** · 26-05-2017, 14:00

Originally Posted by Finkelstein

M99 is a semi synthetic opoid, that is 3000 stronger than morphine. Having a LD 50 of 30ug, a droplet inhalation by a human can be fatal. Thus it is packed with naloxone, the opoid antidote.
Having a Schedule 6 drug untegulated will be unheard of and very dangerous.

You hit the nail square on the head, except maybe with the 3000 times stronger than morphine, but it is up there.

**SBB** · 26-05-2017, 21:05

Originally Posted by Finkelstein

M99 is a semi synthetic opoid, that is 3000 stronger than morphine. Having a LD 50 of 30ug, a droplet inhalation by a human can be fatal. Thus it is packed with naloxone, the opoid antidote.Having a Schedule 6 drug untegulated will be unheard of and very dangerous.

Oh i know how dangerous it is. Seen a vet give himself the antidote in the tongue even. It was unregulated not that long ago....regulations....soon hitet etc etc will be regulated. There comes a point were practicality supercededs regulation. A firearm is just as lethal...its regulated but available at a practical level to those that need it...

**SBB** · 26-05-2017, 21:09

No one is saying unregulated.... everything in todays age is already regulated.Im saying registered game farmers or conservation areas be registered...do a competency for example and be granted access to said drug for their work purposes.

**SBB** · 26-05-2017, 21:14

For example. There are 3 endangered species im currently trying to dart and remove from area. Vets have been out. Species seen call vet ,vet arrives 1-2 hours later animal is long gone. Spends day their sees nothing. Invoice and thanks for comming. Repeat etc. I saw said species today at 4pm. Coulda darted and been done. I have one more call out left on budget. If the vet is unsuccessful i will be applying for permits to shoot said animals as my cost now outweighs my return.

**A-R** · 26-05-2017, 21:16

Originally Posted by Finkelstein

M99 is a semi synthetic opoid, that is 3000 stronger than morphine. Having a LD 50 of 30ug, a droplet inhalation by a human can be fatal. Thus it is packed with naloxone, the opoid antidote.
Having a Schedule 6 drug untegulated will be unheard of and very dangerous.

Yup. It is the danger to humans that prompted the stricter regulation. While a 80 kg animal needs a healthy dose to just get mellow, a single droplet will be fatal to a human, even if just inhaled or maybe even absorbed through the skin.

**Epsilon** · 26-05-2017, 21:20

Originally Posted by SBB

For example. There are 3 endangered species im currently trying to dart and remove from area. Vets have been out. Species seen call vet ,vet arrives 1-2 hours later animal is long gone. Spends day their sees nothing. Invoice and thanks for comming. Repeat etc. I saw said species today at 4pm. Coulda darted and been done. I have one more call out left on budget. If the vet is unsuccessful i will be applying for permits to shoot said animals as my cost now outweighs my return.

This is precisely the reason someone asked me to look at alternatives. Regulation of the right stuff really is a problem to guys like yourself.