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  1. #31

    Default Re: Gun Ownership: Right or Privilege ?

    Suggesting someone is "a racist" because they suggest that licencing isn't a bad thing is grasping at straws and an enormous stretch of logic.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Gun Ownership: Right or Privilege ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Springer View Post
    Suggesting someone is "a racist" because they suggest that licencing isn't a bad thing is grasping at straws and an enormous stretch of logic.
    I have unfortunately seen enough people express their belief in some sort of gun control in order to keep firearms out of the hands of certain segments of the population. If we take into account the racist roots of gun control (not only in the United States, but also here), then it is not at all a stretch of logic. The fact that anti-gun groups have been able to disguise how racist their agenda is for as long as they have is exactly why the concept has remained as palatable as it is.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Gun Ownership: Right or Privilege ?

    Everyone is affected by crime except the few that can afford(are afforded) the security to not be affected.
    Everyone should be allowed to own firearms. You should be able to just buy it over the counter.

    The only people that should be punished for having a firearm is someone that has proven that they should not be allowed a gun. This group includes all violent convicted criminals, etc. But the responsibility should be with the criminal to know that he is not allowed a gun. The court can tell him n sentencing. But to punish the rest of society with bureaucracy that isn't going to help a bit is silly. A criminal that wants a gun will get one even if the system tries to prevent it. For the same reason any weapon used by a criminal should carry a heavy penalty. Penalize the criminals not the good guys.

    Every household should own a serviceable gun and gun safety and handling should be taught as school as part of the course.

    My domestic worker has been affected by contact crime at an average of once a year. She should be allowed to carry a gun. A cheap snubby (R500 - some gunshops has barrels full of them) in every household with everyone trained to use it from 12 years and older would go a very long way to stop crime dead.

    A criminal can only use one gun at a time, but if he faces the certainty that every time he goes into a house there is a gun and he may be on the receiving end, it would make it a rather dangerous occupation and much less lucrative.

    The mind set should change.
    Somehow people must realize that a Samsung smartphone for R200 did not fall off a truck, but someone got robbed/hurt/killed for it to be R200 and that they are just as guilty of the crime by being a willing market.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Gun Ownership: Right or Privilege ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Springer View Post
    Suggesting someone is "a racist" because they suggest that licencing isn't a bad thing is grasping at straws and an enormous stretch of logic.
    Not really hey,and not in this particular context!Its spot on,to paraphrase,dont try bs a bullshitter - despite the protestations/denials online, it is at the root of the problem MOST of the time.

    Moet my asb nie probeer oortuig dat dit nie die geval is ten minste 90% van die tyd nie! Daar is natuurlik n paar uitsonderings,ie the true believers,but I dont think too many of them frequent this forum.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Gun Ownership: Right or Privilege ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabie View Post
    Gun ownership: Should we have a right to own a firearm, or should this be a privilege ?
    It is already a right. A privilege is favored treatment granted on a whim. The right just comes with a vetting process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabie View Post
    I Personally believe I should have the right to protect myself and my family.
    You already have that right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabie View Post
    In Sa we have the Privilege with a massive process that takes about 6 months give or take, We have to really Motivate why we need a firearm and this could still lead to a Unsuccessful application.
    The license process is a completely different issue to your right to own a firearm, which right you already have. The license process is not a privilege, it is a right, because it is based on law, and if the CFR does not follow the law, they can be taken to court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabie View Post
    Crime is always on the rise in Sa I think they should really consider making it a right ?
    It is already a right, you must pass the vetting process as well.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by curious george View Post
    Not really hey,and not in this particular context!Its spot on,to paraphrase,dont try bs a bullshitter - despite the protestations/denials online, it is at the root of the problem MOST of the time.Moet my asb nie probeer oortuig dat dit nie die geval is ten minste 90% van die tyd nie! Daar is natuurlik n paar uitsonderings,ie the true believers,but I dont think too many of them frequent this forum.
    Maybe in your social circle it's like that, but not with guys I shoot with. But I suppose it is a factor. From my perspective, I'd be happy that everyone who finds the need - and has the inclination, be it self protection, sport shooting, hunting or just a hobby, is able to own a gun. There are obviously people that live amongst us, that I prefer would find it impossible to legally own a gun. And yes, before everyone hauls out the famous "criminals will get guns anyway" line - I'm well aware of that. Guns aren't for everyone. And nor should they be.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Gun Ownership: Right or Privilege ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 414gates View Post
    It is already a right. A privilege is favored treatment granted on a whim. The right just comes with a vetting process.
    Just for clarity

    Privilege
    a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group


    The FCA is your 'whim' and the Registrar is the granter.

    With those 2 paragraphs in mind, it should be clear that gun ownership is not a right but a privilege.

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  8. #38
    User 414gates's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gun Ownership: Right or Privilege ?

    Quote Originally Posted by G33 View Post
    Privilege
    a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group
    You state a fact then get lost in hyperbole.

    Rights are protected by law, privilege is not.

    Firearms can be owned by anyone, and definitely not available to a certain group only.

    Don't confuse rights with the licensing process. You can't argue that people who comply with the rules for firearm ownership are only a particular group.

    A privilege is not subject to legal enforcement, a right is.

    The government might want you to think it is a privilege, so when they revoke the privilege you don't feel so bad, because they were just doing you a favor anyway.

    At the moment, gun ownership is a right. It is subject to law.

    The CFR is subject to the same law, and if they don't respect your right, or deny your right without legal cause, the law can force them to grant your right.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Gun Ownership: Right or Privilege ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 414gates View Post

    A privilege is not subject to legal enforcement, a right is.
    Funny you say this.... to my recollection privileges have been secured by the populace, which should not be confused with the popular aka French Uprising.

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  10. #40

    Default Re: Gun Ownership: Right or Privilege ?

    [QUOTE=curious george;1197192]Gun ownership is a civil liberties issue

    Spot on

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